Fall in! Attention! - What about..

[adonys]

Things are looking rough around here.

What happened yesterday, on top of everything else, left us all with a bitter taste in our mouths. What trust can you put anymore into a company which, even considering the disastrous state their product still is in one-year-and-a-half after its release, and even considering their almost free-fall business state, is not able to fulfill a simple promise they themselves made, like answering some questions at a given date & time, and not even make a statement about why are they late with the answers?!!

These days consumers are treated like crap. and are only looked at some sort of big dumb cash-stuffed wallets ready to throw out their money at any crap a software developer throws at them, while the investors are the ones in control of everything.

Why not trade places then?

We love this games genre, WWII combat flight simulation, and it seems MG is dropping the ball and there's no other real alternative left, or over the horizon.

Why not create one ourselves?

Moaning about a faulty product from a consumer's posture won't give us anything, and taking the only action available to get their attention would be a class suit against them, which will bury our product dead for sure.

I think it is the time for us to step in, or forever shut our mouths about it.

It seems that no one from the current WWII combat flight games is willing to hear us and give us what we need and look for.

Why not look for someone to hire and do the damn job we want to be done?!!

Most of us are over 30s, with some money stability and affording all sort of things like i7s, 680's, Warthogs and God knows what sort of other expensive shiny hardware floating around these days. I think we can afford to put some money down on the table to build a future for our dear hobby.

Let's do a Kickstarter, or Elance, "WWII combat flight simulation community" project, gather all the money we want to invest in our hobby then make a hire proposal to Gaijin, or 777, or whatever else decent combat flight game engine is floating around these days, to add a (real) WWII simulation & SDK part to their engine?!!

If our numbers are around 2000 (we must be more, but let's assume this number as the part of us willing to do something about it. and having some media attention we might attract even outside WWII combat flight community interests), each donating 500 euro (a new 680 card price, or a warthog + a trackir) we'll gather 1 million euro. Even if only donating 100 each, we'll end up having 200k, a sum large enough to support 5k x 40 programmer months of work (ie 5k x 4 people x 10 months). A sum large enough to bend the will an attract the interest of one of them and then have some things our way, with investors control power.. wouldn't you think?

Heck, we could even hire MG to do the job while having the development process (code, builds, milestones, paychecks) in our control.

Imagine us being their bosses.. Wouldn't that be a day worth living for?!!

Dan Antonescu

[5./JG27.Farber]

O this is gonna be good

Originally Posted by adonys

Things are looking rough around here.

What happened yesterday, on top of everything else, left us all with a bitter taste in our mouths. What trust can you put anymore into a company which, even considering the disastrous state their product still is in one-year-and-a-half after its release, and even considering their almost free-fall business state, is not able to fulfill a simple promise they themselves made, like answering some questions at a given date & time, and not even make a statement about why are they late with the answers?!!

Please dont speak for US ALL... You must have read a different update, cos I dont remember Luthier talking about financial freefall. Just because you heard a cool word on TV doesnt mean you should use it.

Originally Posted by adonys

These days consumers are treated like @@@@. and are only looked at some sort of big dumb cash-stuffed wallets ready to throw out their money at any crap a software developer throws at them, while the investors are the ones in control of everything.

Call of Duty, Battlefield.

Originally Posted by adonys

Why not trade places then?

We love this games genre, WWII combat flight simulation, and it seems MG is dropping the ball and there's no other real alternative left, or over the horizon.

You really want the stress? Your quite correct, if MG dies, the future is bleak. So busting nuts, scaring new commers with "the horrendos bugfest storeis" and not buying the sequal, is only gonna put it in the ground faster. You dont cut off your nose to spite your face! We must help the devs with bug reports etc and gamble with our investment in the sequal. Worst that will happen is you will lose 30 quid... If you cant afford to lose that you should be gaming.

Originally Posted by adonys

Why not create one ourselves?

Moaning about a faulty product from a consumer's posture won't give us anything, and taking the only action available to get their attention would be a class suit against them, which will bury our product dead for sure.

I think it is the time for us to step in, or forever shut our mouths about it.

I totally agree, I want nothing more than to see a load of you unhappy guys saddle up and try it for your selves!! Please get this thing on kick starter right now so I know you are serious. I really want to see you unhappy guys put your money where your mouth is and go balls deep. Better where a hard hat though cos reality can come down pretty hard...

Originally Posted by adonys

It seems that no one from the current WWII combat flight games is willing to hear us and give us what we need and look for.

Why not look for someone to hire and do the damn job we want to be done?!!

Most of us are over 30s, with some money stability and affording all sort of things like i7s, 680's, Warthogs and God knows what sort of other expensive shiny hardware floating around these days. I think we can afford to put some money down on the table to build a future for our dear hobby.

Let's do a Kickstarter, or Elance, "WWII combat flight simulation community" project, gather all the money we want to invest in our hobby then make a hire proposal to Gaijin, or 777, or whatever else decent combat flight game engine is floating around these days, to add a (real) WWII simulation & SDK part to their engine?!!

If our numbers are around 2000 (we must be more, but let's assume this number as the part of us willing to do something about it. and having some media attention we might attract even outside WWII combat flight community interests), each donating 500 euro (a new 680 card price, or a warthog + a trackir) we'll gather 1 million euro. Even if only donating 100 each, we'll end up having 200k, a sum large enough to support 5k x 40 programmer months of work (ie 5k x 4 people x 10 months). A sum large enough to bend the will an attract the interest of one of them and then have some things our way, with investors control power.. wouldn't you think?

Heck, we could even hire MG to do the job while having the development process (code, builds, milestones, paychecks) in our control.

Imagine us being their bosses.. Wouldn't that be a day worth living for?!!

Dan Antonescu

I just highlighted some of my favourite bits there... "If we had all the money we could tell anyone to do anything!"

OK Now get this on Kickstarter right now!

You guys dont have the coconuts...

[adonys]

uhm.. why would you think that doing this on Kickstarter would need balls?!!

and I wasn't talking about you all, I was talking about those of you willing to try something. the rest of you, just stay in your couches and enjoy your life

besides, this not something as fantastic as you are implying it to be. maybe you've noticed that I wasn't talking about hiring someone to do us a whole game from the scratch. we don't have enough numbers to gather enough money for that.

but we might be enough, and gather enough, to persuade some developer already having a combat flight game engine to add a real simulation part/mod to their game.

as you said, it's actually all about the money.. if we can gather enough (and that doesn't mean millions, a few hundreds of thousands would be enough), we might even ask for a big pink flying pig, and they'll still do it

[U505]

It sound like the french revolution

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by adonys

uhm.. why would you think that doing this on Kickstarter would need balls?!!

and I wasn't talking about you all, I was talking about those of you willing to try something.

the rest of you, just stay in your couches and enjoy your life

Obviously you have never run a business and more importantly you have never run a business which has failed - a far more valuble lesson!

Im calling your bluff. You see doing that would actually be hard work, not just visiting a forum with your gripes everyday.

I am well aware of whom you where referring too and I think this is a ingenious idea! I really want you guys to go for it.

If it comes to the crunch I will even invest...

What are you waiting for?


EDIT: Dont change your posts. Speak from the heart and leave it at that.

[adonys]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

You really want the stress? Your quite correct, if MG dies, the future is bleak. So busting nuts, scaring new commers with "the horrendos bugfest storeis" and not buying the sequal, is only gonna put it in the ground faster. You dont cut off your nose to spite your face! We must help the devs with bug reports etc and gamble with our investment in the sequal. Worst that will happen is you will lose 30 quid... If you cant afford to lose that you should be gaming.

as for this, sir, with all my respect, I'm sorry to say it, but you're an idiot. you should have done your lessons first, before start throwing crap at me.. it's easier for you to just trash talk anyone trying to do something, than do it yourself.. kind of proving what sort of man are you..

Originally Posted by adonys

I will buy BoM, despite MG's poor show from the latest year and a half following IL2CoD's release, not because I have faith in them (that's already lost by now too) but because I love WW2 combat flight sim, and until they'll get out of the door with their feet firsts (as a business), whatever little improvements they can add to the game will benefit us all. And I think most of us will do the same.

And I really, really wish them to pull out their head from the closet and make the code GPL or at least pick up some users from this community who want to volunteer to work on some parts of their code: they can easily deal with non-render-engine related stuff (as AI, GUI, bugs, etc.).

PS: and I've not changed my post, I've just polished it a little bit. no message itself change, as you can easily see comparing with what you've quoted.

and again you're talking using only half of your brain power..

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Obviously you have never run a business and more importantly you have never run a business which has failed - a far more valuble lesson!

Im calling your bluff. You see doing that would actually be hard work, not just visiting a forum with your gripes everyday.

how would you know that? do you know me? do you know what I am doing for living?

actually, unlike you, I've signed it with my own real name.

and again unlike you, I'm willing to bet on that, I am working as a game developer from 10 years by now, as lead designer, lead programmer and senior producer. we've worked with lots of investors, including Sony Online Entertainment for example. Just do a search on LinkedIn on my name, and you'll see it in there (including a recommendation from a SOE director of production). and I am second in a small business which had its ups and downs during these years (including business almost failing situations).

again, nothing else than just showing what kind of man you really are..

[5./JG27.Farber]

I forgive you for insulting me. I understand I am threatening the reality of something very dear to your heart. I am sorry for doing that.



However:
Go for it mate! I really wanna see this flesh out.

[WhiskeyBravo]

The above few threads illustrate why this idea will never work!

WB.

[adonys]

no, I forgive you for insulting me, mate.

and also for not seeing what this actually is about.. as MG might be the direct gainer from this, if this materializes and MG can pick up the glove.

we all might get out of it better: us with a working and improved CoD and a better sens of us as a community able to do things and get some respect, MG with some investment money for CoD, which would also benefit their BoM sequel and engine, 1C with some other 3rd party investor adding money in which would mean better chances for them to get their investment back, and in the end the game itself with some better face

call me a dreamer, but I do really think we can pull this up

Originally Posted by WhiskeyBravo

The above few posts illustrate why this idea will never work!

WB.

you are right, but again, we don't need all the community to make this work. and if the ball starts rolling, I'm sure many of the rest of the nay-sayers will also jump in. we all love this kind of game, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

[JG52Uther]

Anyone that wants to contact the OP about his idea please PM him.