Speaking of Guns...

[CWMV]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I think the no need for maintenance of AKs is surely a bit overrated, but it's true, you can leave them to themselves and they will keep on working, extremely simple guns but obviously not that accurate. Helluva fierce thing to use in close combat though!



oh, if we're talking about big assault rifles I'd rather stay classic (and classy) with my Garand M1.
30-06 calibre is by far the best compromise, it's a whole whopping kg lighter than the SCAR and keeps 8 rounds in its very sleek design, which means you can use it also on prone position without the magazine being in the way.
The M-14 is another lovely gun, and maybe more versatile than the Garand.

I haven't heard much good about Rumanian stuff, but never tried it myself. Even their version of the Dragunov is a bit crap.

I politely disagree!
If anything I think the AK's reputation for reliability and ease of use/maintenance can not be overrated. Ive pulled these things out of Iraqi irrigation ditches, kicked open the bolt, locked, loaded and fired without issue. And these things had been in the mud so long that the stock had rotted away, and that's saying a lot for laminated wood!
The accuracy does leave a bit to be desired by western standards, but overall its acceptable for an assault rifle. Add to that the sheer power advantage of the x39 and ability to penetrate light cover and I would much rather have it than the 5.56.

Perhaps you can explain the garand thing to me. I loath the platform. Seriously it feels like I'm shouldering a 4x4 fence post. Nothing like a nice sleek 98K or even a Mosin-Nagant. Overall I'm not a fan.

As to the Romanian stuff it has gotten much better in recent years. The Romanian G kit is the kit by which all others are judged for your own home built gun, and the WASR series of rifles are much, MUCH better than they used to be. Canted sights and terrible mag wobble are a thing of the past. Add to that a whopping $400 price out the door (in a free state anyway, not here in the peoples republic of kalifornistan). Even the little Draco's are a nifty little gun. Surprisingly accurate at 100 meters for such a short AKM. Nearly my favorite pistol-nearly.

The PSL that you mention actually has nothing to do with the Dragunov. Its a DM weapon yes, but the construction is unrelated. Its based off of the RPK receiver with the heavier trunnions. The biggest thing going against it is the barrel-long and skinny. Mine has a tendency to climb due to barrel whip during quick bursts, but nothing dramatic. Again perfectly acceptable for a 400 meter rifle. If you actually take slow, deliberate shots with it it is surprisingly accurate even with the surplus ammo flooding the market right now. With handloads and slow fire Ive actually watched someone pull off a 1.5 MOA group pretty easily with the platform.

If I lived in a free state Id probably buy two WASR's and a boat load of ammo for the price of an Arsenal. not to mention Arsenal has, in the past, taken strong stances against the 2nd amendment and heavily discriminated against certain states, to the point of taking retailers to court for selling their product to California regardless of the legal nature of the transactions.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by CWMV

I politely disagree!
If anything I think the AK's reputation for reliability and ease of use/maintenance can not be overrated. Ive pulled these things out of Iraqi irrigation ditches, kicked open the bolt, locked, loaded and fired without issue. And these things had been in the mud so long that the stock had rotted away, and that's saying a lot for laminated wood!
The accuracy does leave a bit to be desired by western standards, but overall its acceptable for an assault rifle. Add to that the sheer power advantage of the x39 and ability to penetrate light cover and I would much rather have it than the 5.56.

you're missing my point. I know they will shoot even in the worst conditions, but no maintenance will still do them no good. And yes, the AK ammo is the best in its range, big fat bullets that can knock through a lot more than the flimsy 5.56..

Perhaps you can explain the garand thing to me. I loath the platform. Seriously it feels like I'm shouldering a 4x4 fence post. Nothing like a nice sleek 98K or even a Mosin-Nagant. Overall I'm not a fan.

IMHO as a semiauto rifle it's probably one of the best designs ever. It can be a bit heavy, but composite stocks and special straps make it still very portable and above all dead accurate. It's only 10cm longer than a SCAR-H, but this means it burns the 30-06 powder all the way and gives it an effective range of 450yds (I've seen folks with M-1D sniper hitting gong targets at 1000yds).
The sleek design means that you have no annoying magazine under, and the 30-06 is far superior to the .308.
Don't know why you're comparing it to bolt action rifles though, they are designed and meant to be used in a different way.
I have a K98 with ZF-41 and that is by far one of the best bolt action rifles ever. Forget about the Russian Mosin-Nagant crap, the Mauser bolt action is one of the smoothest, safest and most perfect things ever.
I have an Enfield No.4 T as well, and despite being considered the best sniper rifle of WW2, I can't come to terms with the action, but it surely is a dead accurate gun.

As to the Romanian stuff it has gotten much better in recent years. The Romanian G kit is the kit by which all others are judged for your own home built gun, and the WASR series of rifles are much, MUCH better than they used to be. Canted sights and terrible mag wobble are a thing of the past. Add to that a whopping $400 price out the door (in a free state anyway, not here in the peoples republic of kalifornistan). Even the little Draco's are a nifty little gun. Surprisingly accurate at 100 meters for such a short AKM. Nearly my favorite pistol-nearly.

The PSL that you mention actually has nothing to do with the Dragunov. Its a DM weapon yes, but the construction is unrelated. Its based off of the RPK receiver with the heavier trunnions. The biggest thing going against it is the barrel-long and skinny. Mine has a tendency to climb due to barrel whip during quick bursts, but nothing dramatic. Again perfectly acceptable for a 400 meter rifle. If you actually take slow, deliberate shots with it it is surprisingly accurate even with the surplus ammo flooding the market right now. With handloads and slow fire Ive actually watched someone pull off a 1.5 MOA group pretty easily with the platform.

If I lived in a free state Id probably buy two WASR's and a boat load of ammo for the price of an Arsenal. not to mention Arsenal has, in the past, taken strong stances against the 2nd amendment and heavily discriminated against certain states, to the point of taking retailers to court for selling their product to California regardless of the legal nature of the transactions.

well yeah, it's still Rumanian junk IMHO. If you want a good modern sniper rifle you need to look at Tikka or Remington (the 700 Police is just a perfect platform), they're not cheap, but man what fantastic, simple, precise guns they are!

[CWMV]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

you're missing my point. I know they will shoot even in the worst conditions, but no maintenance will still do them no good. And yes, the AK ammo is the best in its range, big fat bullets that can knock through a lot more than the flimsy 5.56..

Ive actually got a bet going with the wife on this. I havent cleaned/maintained any of my AK's for the last 2 years, and I bet I can go 5 without having issues. She thinks 3 years.

Obviously not the right thing to do, but hey even after 2, no maint, and thousands of rounds of com-bloc surplus they still run like champs! All Romainian too, except for the Saiga conversions.

IMHO as a semiauto rifle it's probably one of the best designs ever. It can be a bit heavy, but composite stocks and special straps make it still very portable and above all dead accurate. It's only 10cm longer than a SCAR-H, but this means it burns the 30-06 powder all the way and gives it an effective range of 450yds (I've seen folks with M-1D sniper hitting gong targets at 1000yds).
The sleek design means that you have no annoying magazine under, and the 30-06 is far superior to the .308.
Don't know why you're comparing it to bolt action rifles though, they are designed and meant to be used in a different way.
I have a K98 with ZF-41 and that is by far one of the best bolt action rifles ever. Forget about the Russian Mosin-Nagant crap, the Mauser bolt action is one of the smoothest, safest and most perfect things ever.
I have an Enfield No.4 T as well, and despite being considered the best sniper rifle of WW2, I can't come to terms with the action, but it surely is a dead accurate gun.

For certain accurate, but the round is frankly obsolete. .308 can be loaded to duplicate and exceed 30-06 performance and its starting to dry up in a bad way. There is a lot to be said for arming yourself with a current caliber.
My biggest complaint about the garand isn't the weight, Ive been a 240 gunner and a mortarman so this rifle isn't going to drag me down! Its the shape. I mean its just...awkward! To me anyway. I mean I seriously just can not get into a comfortable position with the garand.

And whats this about M.N. crap! I happen to love the platform, for the same reason i appreciate all Russian guns-simplicity and form that follows function.
My 1915 Peter the Great M.N. will shoot just as well as any of my mausers, and after a thorough cleaning (I'm talking DAYS to get the near 100 years of gunk out) the bolt is very smooth.
Only thing that really gets me on the M.N. is feeding it. You go to push the rounds into the mag and before you bottom out there is this ledge on the side of the receiver that can tear your thumb nail off!

Ive never had the opportunity to shoot an Enfield, but it is quite a fetching platform. If I could ever find a reasonably priced Ishapore Enfield in my area Id be on it like a fat kid on cake.

well yeah, it's still Rumanian junk IMHO. If you want a good modern sniper rifle you need to look at Tikka or Remington (the 700 Police is just a perfect platform), they're not cheap, but man what fantastic, simple, precise guns they are!

Well your comparing apples to automobiles here. Neither the PSL or the Drag are sniper rifles by western standards, they are more akin to a designated marksmans rifle, more comparable to a scoped GI M-14. Performance wise they are pretty similar.

I see that your from Canada. That sucks (as far as guns go). Even in California we can own Ar/AK platform rifles.

You know what surprises me though is the seemingly common nature of the SVT-40 up there. Here they are like Hens teeth, and can cost thousands of dollars. Ive spoken to Canadians who bought their 5-round magazine SVT's for $400. Id do terrible things to own an SVT.

EDIT: And if your going to talk actual sniper rifles, dont forget Savage! They consistently win competitions here with out of the box stock rifles, going against custom Rem/Tikka variants.

EDIT 2: Misread-jaws is out of Canada-my mistake!

[ElAurens]

You owe it to yourself to get an Enfield or 4. Slickest bolt action ever, even if not the strongest.

I have everything from a Long Lee up to a 1950 Long Branch, and a 2A1 Ishapore. The WW1 No.1 Mk.III is my favorite though. The old axiom about WW1 rifles really is true. The Germans had the best hunting rifle (98 Mauser), the Americans had the best target rifle (03 Springfield), and the British had the best battle rifle.

[IvanK]

Yay Lee Enfields forever here are mine



with a couple of ringins as well.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I've always worked on the premise that one Lee Endfield was all a man ever needed! Ever!

I was obviously mistaken!

Here's my baby!



My only problem with the rifle that I don't get a chance to use her as much as I would like!

I feel a trip to the bush is in order.

[camber]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

I've always worked on the premise that one Lee Endfield was all a man ever needed! Ever!

I was obviously mistaken!

Here's my baby!

Very nice Skoshi, and nicely arranged on the Aussie flag. At least, hopefully the flag and not a giant sized beach towel.

But wait, are IvanK's guns arranged....on a giant Soviet flag!!??

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by CWMV

Ive actually got a bet going with the wife on this. I havent cleaned/maintained any of my AK's for the last 2 years, and I bet I can go 5 without having issues. She thinks 3 years.

Obviously not the right thing to do, but hey even after 2, no maint, and thousands of rounds of com-bloc surplus they still run like champs! All Romainian too, except for the Saiga conversions.

even corrosive ammo?

For certain accurate, but the round is frankly obsolete. .308 can be loaded to duplicate and exceed 30-06 performance and its starting to dry up in a bad way. There is a lot to be said for arming yourself with a current caliber.
My biggest complaint about the garand isn't the weight, Ive been a 240 gunner and a mortarman so this rifle isn't going to drag me down! Its the shape. I mean its just...awkward! To me anyway. I mean I seriously just can not get into a comfortable position with the garand.

The Garand is best used with sling techniques. Web or leather slings as you probably know can be used to do the steady shooting with no support other than your own body. How you mean you can't get comfortable with it? If anything I find it very comfortable, from the iron sights to the feel. It might be a matter of different experiences, I personally never felt too comfortable/confident with M-16/Car15, go figure!

And whats this about M.N. crap! I happen to love the platform, for the same reason i appreciate all Russian guns-simplicity and form that follows function.
My 1915 Peter the Great M.N. will shoot just as well as any of my mausers, and after a thorough cleaning (I'm talking DAYS to get the near 100 years of gunk out) the bolt is very smooth.
Only thing that really gets me on the M.N. is feeding it. You go to push the rounds into the mag and before you bottom out there is this ledge on the side of the receiver that can tear your thumb nail off!

Well IMHO they've been built and assembled by blind drunken monkeys.. they quality and finish is never up to the standards of other similar rifles, the safety is a joke, the feeding is a pain, the bolt design is terrible and not particularly safe.. Perfect rifle for a mass war, cos it's cheap as chips and easy to produce and it (mostly) spits bullets out of the right end, but no, they're nowhere near the quality of a K98 or a Springfield.

Ive never had the opportunity to shoot an Enfield, but it is quite a fetching platform. If I could ever find a reasonably priced Ishapore Enfield in my area Id be on it like a fat kid on cake.

They're weird guns those Enfields: on paper they should be crap (stock that is bolted to the rest of the rifle, barrel completely covered by wood), but they're quite good, and the bolt action is surely a peculiar one, a bit delicate if you ask me, but very fast and smooth. Worth the experience

Well your comparing apples to automobiles here. Neither the PSL or the Drag are sniper rifles by western standards, they are more akin to a designated marksmans rifle, more comparable to a scoped GI M-14. Performance wise they are pretty similar.

well the Dragunov was designed as a marksman gun actually.

I see that your from Canada. That sucks (as far as guns go). Even in California we can own Ar/AK platform rifles.

You know what surprises me though is the seemingly common nature of the SVT-40 up there. Here they are like Hens teeth, and can cost thousands of dollars. Ive spoken to Canadians who bought their 5-round magazine SVT's for $400. Id do terrible things to own an SVT.

EDIT: And if your going to talk actual sniper rifles, dont forget Savage! They consistently win competitions here with out of the box stock rifles, going against custom Rem/Tikka variants.

EDIT 2: Misread-jaws is out of Canada-my mistake!

hehehe yeah I'm Italian but living in the UK, it's a real nightmare here, and not because of what you can't have, it's the mentality that is just absurd.. but anyway I go back to Italy often enough to shoot regularly.