The 'Great Debate' - Spitfire vs BF109

[gimpy117]

I dunno, those graphs before, are nice...but lets face it...the Graph for the Spit, the one that shows blazing speed is on 12 pound boost. And that would Cook your engine. So really unless you are in emergency go for broke mode you won't beat an ME-109. And heck In real life emergency power was for just that, not chasing an ME-109 when he's extending all kill crazy.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I dunno, those graphs before, are nice...but lets face it...the Graph for the Spit, the one that shows blazing speed is on 12 pound boost. And that would Cook your engine. So really unless you are in emergency go for broke mode you won't beat an ME-109. And heck In real life emergency power was for just that, not chasing an ME-109 when he's extending all kill crazy.

Five minutes was more than sufficient for most combats and you could normally go for longer than that should the need arise. You would be very unlucky if everything went very quiet after 6 mins

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by Glider

Five minutes was more than sufficient for most combats and you could normally go for longer than that should the need arise. You would be very unlucky if everything went very quiet after 6 mins

Quite, 5 minutes was a guaranteed time, a failure was 'possible' after 5 minutes.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Glider

Tomcat
Find any pilot of any nation including German ones, who found the Spitfire difficult or unpleasent to fly. If it was as difficult as people are making out you should be able to find someone.

Naca & RAE curves describe instrumented flights were the test pilot had to follow a predetermined trajectory. Nothing like what most of the fighter pilot will try to do.

Still it is interesting that it give us an indication that the ctrls were not the one we have in the sim where the Spitfire act like an F18.

Attention to details and imperfections are what makes a great sim.

Originally Posted by Glider

Molders described the SPitfire as being faultless in a turn and childishly easy to take off and land. He found it much easier that the Me109.

I hve always said that I do believe that the 109 was more difficult to master than the Spit. It's an evidence for me.

What you told us about your experience in gliders is interesting. Thank you for the feed-back.

Originally Posted by Glider

I admit that I don't understand your statement they would hve taken great care that the ailerons had the same sensitivity The ailerons are the same in each wing, but its late and I might be missing something obvious.

I was talking of the travel range in roll that shld be more or less the same as the one in pitch -ie control harmonization - sry for my bad English

It would be interesting (and relatively easy) to hve it implemented in the Spit model.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

Quite, 5 minutes was a guaranteed time, a failure was 'possible' after 5 minutes.

Hve you seen that in the MkII manual they are talking abt 1min at T.O for the 12lb boost rate ? And did you notice that the MKII had also a new eng fitted ?

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Hve you seen that in the MkII manual they are talking abt 1min at T.O for the 12lb boost rate ? And did you notice that the MKII had also a new eng fitted ?

I'm saying that if it says 5 minutes in the notes it means you are guaranteed 5 minutes, just like 1 minute = 1 minute guaranteed

I'm not disputing the actual limitations, sorry for the confusion.

[TomcatViP]

Sry myself. I am too sensitive on that file

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Hve you seen that in the MkII manual they are talking abt 1min at T.O for the 12lb boost rate ? And did you notice that the MKII had also a new eng fitted ?

You miss Spitfire with 109.

1 minute TO emergency power was allowed for 109 E at 1.4 ( 1.45) Ata,

and 5 minutes was for Emergency power at 1.3 ( 1.35 Ata) - which in CLOD you could used for all day until your fuel is gone.

For Spitfire MK1 100 Octan +12 lbs was definitly 5-minutes emergency power and for SPitfire MK II +12 lbs was probably initialy 3-minutes emergency then also 5 minutes time limit. I see no reason why Merlin XII could not stand 5-minutes emergency power if Merlin III could do it without problem expecially if MErlin XII was designated for 100 Octan fuel more then MErlin III ( which was adopted only).

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

For Spitfire MK1 100 Octan +12 lbs was definitly 5-minutes emergency power and for SPitfire MK II +12 lbs was probably initialy 3-minutes emergency then also 5 minutes time limit. I see no reason why Merlin XII could not stand 5-minutes emergency power if Merlin III could do it without problem expecially if MErlin XII was designated for 100 Octan fuel more then MErlin III ( which was adopted only).

Exactly - the Merln XII was further developement of the III and with all mods standardised and more robust components it was certainly more durable than the earlier version (Merlin III). Plus the more effective cooling... We must stick to the pilot's notes and I should be noted that the boost cut-out was working on a different principle on the Spitfire Mk.II (throttle gate) than on the Spitfire Mk.I (bowden cable). This has been well discussed in the other threads.

I agree on the 109s raping the 'Afterburner' button with no penalty whereby you will cook your Merlin even if flown by the book at some occasions.

The main problem I see in this kind of discussions on a sim forums is that either side (red or blue) simply can't appreciate what the other side is saying or what they are facing in the game. The reason is that majority of the pilots fly exclusively RAF or Luftwaffe (there is absolutely nothing wrong with that) and they simply have got no idea what is going on in the 'others' cockpits or about the game balance, yet they still like to comment on that very topics. As a keen fighter pilot on any side of the Channel, I am often astonished with what some people say in here, e.g. Spitfire is just a faster Hurricane or that Spitfire acts like F-18 Similar views about the 109s from the red-only perspective.

I know this thread is probably to discuss real life aircraft and not how they're represented in this sim, but still. The FMs and DMs are still very rough and imperfect, game is still fun, even this forum is fun sometimes. But honestly guys, get real, some of you

[ATAG_Snapper]

Ah, but I'm sure those 109 pilots who complain about RAF pilots opening their canopies to use their "sonar" are NEVER the ones "raping" their afterburner buttons!