Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru (Discussion)

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Oh you kids say the dardest things!

Phill.. I know I have said this to you in the past..

But it apears that you have forgot?

So allow me to say it again

You seem to have me confused with someone that gives a flip about what you say or think..

Just for future reference know that I don't!

Thanks in advance! S!

Take note forum! He has no logical reply so results to personal attacks. How charming. He has the grammar of a child as well, so perhaps we are seeing hypocrisy personified?

He also fails to realise that, by isolating the future from this genre...there is no future. But note that you need not lower the game towards the future generation. They have WoP and the like to get a thirst for this genre, and Il-2, CloD etc provide the necessary realism to further their enjoyment. As I said before: CloD et al have the relevant modes to allow arcade styles of play. Not every adult plays at full-realism. What about older gentlemen who struggle?

Ignorance is bliss, but it doesn't earn money.

Also, AoA, if my posts are so abhorrent then please put me on ignore.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Take note forum! He has no logical reply so results to personal attacks. How charming. He has the grammar of a child as well, so perhaps we are seeing hypocrisy personified?

Yes take note..

And note philips initial reply to me where he said

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Then you're a very stupid man because the kids are the future.

Nothing funnier/sadder than a guy who STARTED the personal attacks trying to play the part of the VICTIM

[Insuber]

Fighter pilota are notoriously aggressive people, but you guys are a bit exaggerating now

[philip.ed]

It's typical British humour, AoA. I would have said it to anyone on this forum, and I'd say it to my friends in real life. It's said in the context of jest.

Note that I didn't make it personal by any means. I simply stated that your approach was ignorant, at best, and stupidity in the very least. And I stand by that, as others here have. Just in the same way you have called Potenz ignorant for not understanding the meaning of DX-11 API. Those in glass houses, mate...

[KG26_Alpha]

Guys please/..............

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

It's typical British humour, AoA. I would have said it to anyone on this forum, and I'd say it to my friends in real life. It's said in the context of jest.

Nothing funnier/sadder than a guy who STARTED the personal attacks trying to play the part of the VICTIM and when caught doing so trys to play down and or re-spin his personal attacks

[philip.ed]

So now that we've gathered that the kids are the future of the flight-sim genre, will an MMO allow the offliners the chance to play? Or is CloD to be handed to the onliners for good?

[klem]

A number of interesting and competing points here and I'd just like to pick up on a couple.

To those that don't think MMO has much to offer I'd say, as an ex Air Warrior and Aces High player, that to take part in a properly organised scenario with say 400 others, assigned to units, planned on a historical scale, briefed, comm'd and organised etc in a historical action like BoB, Pearl Harbour or Big Week creates a level of immersion you just don't get in IL-2 1946 or CoD. Whilst the latter may (will?) have FMs, graphics etc down pat they don't offer that immersion and the feeling of (almost) "being there". Unless you taken part in one of those scenarios and felt the hairs stand up on the back of your neck you may not understand. But that is what many of the more serious WWII simmers want, something to take them deeper into that era and experience. All we get in CoD is a shallow world of a few small time combats and a few small formation intercepts. In IL-2'46 you may also have more objective based maps and some DGEN campaigns but no real scale to them. Just a few squadrons before hitting the 128 limit or more likely about 80. Stop and think. CoD can never really deliver even one typical day in the BoB because it can't support even 400+ aircraft at one time. CoD doesn't deliver the BoB. It needs to be taken to another level or it remains just a few aircraft dogfighting or bombing or the occasional small scale raid scenario. Before someone shouts 'MMO? ping, packets, bandwidth, impossible' that's for the devs to work out and the broadband companies to deliver on as many of them are now. And the next cry, 'we can't get more than 1Mb BB, I can't afford a PC to run it', I'm sorry but you can't expect to run this stuff at that level without the kit and yes that's another squeeze on the market which is why the mass market, arcade, low data bandwidth is important to make what we want on the side viable. What was that? That kind of technology split isn't viable? Look at that i-phone in your hand. Think back ten years.

Regarding 'the kids'. You either want realism and the commitment to learning it demands or you want arcade. Take a look around at the guys you know playing IL-2 '46 and CoD. I bet most of them aren't kids but they were 10 or 15 years ago when they didn't have the patience for sims like IL-2 and played Mario instead. Only a percentage of them even now have the patience for IL-2/CoD which is why 'realism' is a niche market. So what do 1C do to survive? They have to offer to the mass market, the kids, hopefully to be able to support the niche realism market (which is probably where their hearts as aviation sim developers lie). So bring on a MMO with both arcade and full switch settings, different bandwidth demands and servers to support them (Aces High has - had? - different realism levels on their servers).

Pay a monthly subscription? If it captures the arcade market too it should be cheap enough for what you get back. £10/$15 a month? Thats a couple of Big Macs, Fries and a drink and lasts 30 days instead of 15 minutes. Of course the run of the mill play will be set by the server managers but the opportunity for the community to have access to the server and plan and organise large scale special events will give those planners a new world to work with.

Considering MMO business models:
Free DLC? OK if its 'earned' by some kind of server tracked 'career' points.
Paid DLC to 'Buy what you've earned'? Perhaps if its not expensive.
Buy to Win? Absolutely not in the 'realistic' model. Of course in the Arcade model.

But can 1C regularly deliver 'new' content for the arcade players and keep the cash coming in?

[louisv]

With $15 / month, you can finance $1000 easy with a credit card, so what are you giving those people ?

$200 for Prepar3d is cheaper !!!

So to make things simpler, a game for the price of a computer...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by klem

Regarding 'the kids'. You either want realism and the commitment to learning it demands or you want arcade. Take a look around at the guys you know playing IL-2 '46 and CoD. I bet most of them aren't kids but they were 10 or 15 years ago when they didn't have the patience for sims like IL-2 and played Mario instead. Only a percentage of them even now have the patience for IL-2/CoD which is why 'realism' is a niche market.

Agreed 100%

And just to be clear.. The kind of kids I was refering to are the ones that are trying to play mario while playing IL-2!