making CloD a success

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

I don't understand the complaints about no Coop. What can you do in coop style missions that you can't do with the current mission builder?

BTW, I never see anyone on the RoF coop servers.

It was discussed many times but in brief as far as I can get it COOPs have great appeal because they create very competitive situation: equal forces face each other in a known location and time like in a 8 vs. 8 duel. In a dogfight server it is not possible to have very organized 8 vs. 8 duel 3 times in one hour. A duel situation and waiting for it can create unmatched adrenalin emission as you can not climb forever, hide in the sun or run away. You have to face equal enemy anyway and win or die. Something connected to genetic memory maybe

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by Ataros

In a dogfight server it is not possible to have very organized 8 vs. 8 duel 3 times in one hour.

Just have 2 spawn points a few miles apart and have everyone join at the same time. Why is that not the same?

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

Just have 2 spawn points a few miles apart and have everyone join at the same time. Why is that not the same?

1. AI does not wait for human players and flies away.
2. Harder to limit available aircraft and control correct numbers of limited aircraft.
3. Harder to make all people start at the same time (avoid cheating with earlier start) in a competitive situation.

Of cause other issues the game had also made coops unpopular. No one has even started working on a coop-based online war AFAIK. One or 2 squads use Banks' COOP lobby that eliminates above issues but others consider it too complicates to press keyboard keys in game instead of clicking a mouse in GUI.

Starting this week sukhoi.ru plans 12 vs. 12 scenarios to be played on weekends with preliminary registration (in DF mode). Maybe coop enthusiasts would want to organize something similar here. Enough human bombers may register to avoid using AI at all.

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by Ataros

1. AI does not wait for human players and flies away.
2. Harder to limit available aircraft and control correct numbers of limited aircraft.
3. Harder to make all people start at the same time (avoid cheating with earlier start) in a competitive situation.

1. Coordinate the start on TS. Tell everyone to start at the same time. If they're late, TS.

2. Tell everyone which aircraft they're flying before you start.

3. See 1.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Ataros

1. AI does not wait for human players and flies away.
2. Harder to limit available aircraft and control correct numbers of limited aircraft.
3. Harder to make all people start at the same time (avoid cheating with earlier start) in a competitive situation.

Of cause other issues the game had also made coops unpopular. No one has even started working on a coop-based online war AFAIK. One or 2 squads use Banks' COOP lobby that eliminates above issues but others consider it too complicates to press keyboard keys in game instead of clicking a mouse in GUI.

Starting this week sukhoi.ru plans 12 vs. 12 scenarios to be played on weekends with preliminary registration (in DF mode). Maybe coop enthusiasts would want to organize something similar here. Enough human bombers may register to avoid using AI at all.

1. AI will fly in formation with any human as long as they are setup as a group in the mission. You can use as large or small of formation as you like without a single waypoint. By doing this the AI simply flies in a circle at the altitude you have preset for them. As humans hop into the AI positions (again when set as a group) the AI mask the human movements to a letter. So when more humans join in they are still flying in formation. If you do this with single planes (not groups) obviously this doesn't work.

2. Yes and No. This limit can all be scripted or at the very least, you could simply use AI planes as your spawn points. (See #1) When there's no more planes to spawn into a particular group, you have to choose another group to get into.

3. I agree. It's harder, but again using the AI method. When you hop in you'll still be in formation with the group of the 1st person that spawned in (IE - no advantage)

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

1. AI will fly in formation with any human as long as they are setup as a group in the mission. You can use as large or small of formation as you like without a single waypoint. By doing this the AI simply flies in a circle at the altitude you have preset for them. As humans hop into the AI positions (again when set as a group) the AI mask the human movements to a letter. So when more humans join in they are still flying in formation. If you do this with single planes (not groups) obviously this doesn't work.

If I understand correctly this will not work for non-flyable AI like Wellingtons? Also when hosting a coop it is not known in advance if anyone will fly bombers thus it is necessary to set waypoints even for flyable bombers and they will fly away.

The easiest way is still to use Banks' COOP-Lobby IMO:

1. copy any coop or offline mission to a missions folder
2. copy Banks' script to the same folder
3. rename the script file to match the name of mission file
4. GO.

Maybe after patch when crashes are fixed more people test it and provide feedback and bugreports.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Ataros

If I understand correctly this will not work for non-flyable AI like Wellingtons? Also when hosting a coop it is not known in advance if anyone will fly bombers thus it is necessary to set waypoints even for flyable bombers and they will fly away.

The easiest way is still to use Banks' COOP-Lobby IMO:

1. copy any coop or offline mission to a missions folder
2. copy Banks' script to the same folder
3. rename the script file to match the name of mission file
4. GO.

Maybe after patch when crashes are fixed more people test it and provide feedback and bugreports.

I'm only talking about spawning. The rest of the mission's AI planes (if are being used can be blocked from jumping into) For even easier access to spawning you can make a single spawn point for red and blue where the planes being spawned into are with 15km of that point. That way when chosen the only options you have to spawn into are the groups you put into that vicinity. That will not affect any other bombers, AI as part of the mission, etc.

I agree with what Banks has done and hopefully he can make it absolutely idiot proof in the future. But if you know how the game works, setting up a way to start at the same time, in the air, in formation, is really easy to do without a single line of code. Even better is an AI formation on the ground with a timeout command. That way all ground starts are also lined up with plenty of time for humans to jump into them so everyone can start at the same time.

[BH_woodstock]

Getting back on topic..If it were any other game besides il2 or CloD i could care less about having a open chat or Global chat feature. But with this community and this sim it is essential to be able to go into a lobby and troubleshoot in REAL time and "recruit" and be able to see coops and DF servers and communicate in REAL time with other players.This is needed. thats why in my 1st post i stated we have a lot of great minds here.Even this person who is doing this coop program here.(I have seen the post's about it.)All im saying is something needs to be done.The amount of pilots that would be flying online RIGHT NOW would be tenfold at least!!This community is known for helping other pilots out with games and servers and info.Just remember how easy it was to recruit,troubleshoot and everything.This is what is holding this "sim" back in my opinion. I remember even seeing Oleg himself flying in DF servers and troubleshooting and communicating with pilots.Stop "selling" yourselves short and do something about it.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

But if you know how the game works, setting up a way to start at the same time, in the air, in formation, is really easy to do without a single line of code. Even better is an AI formation on the ground with a timeout command. That way all ground starts are also lined up with plenty of time for humans to jump into them so everyone can start at the same time.

Great idea about delayed start but not self explanatory for most of users unfortunately. Maybe some coop mission-makers would want to make coop missions based on this? Anyone?