Spits & Hurri's to 25,000 + feet in RL?

[Catseye]

Hi All,
Having flown both the Hurri and Spit variants that are now modelled in this sim, begs me to wonder how the heck they were able to:

1. Climb fast enough to intercept incoming waves of bombers in the BOB.

2. Make it to altitudes above the mid 20k's which you often hear about in RL stories.

IMHO, it's one thing to model a speed curve, but I think it is another to model acceleration and lift. Right now, to me, both models are flying with 1,000 lbs of building blocks strapped under the wings when in climbing mode.

I know it's been said before: "This is an Alpha/Beta, but I would suggest that the flight model shortcomings are causing many pilots in my squadron to shut it down and leave the sim in disgust.

I know that the dev's are working hard to perfect the graphics and other parts of the engine, I know that the flight models are being tweaked, the pressure is one, the new theatre is being worked on but - if I can't get into an aircraft that doesn't perform, why am I even bothering to stay with the product?

Probably because I've been with it since the very first issue of IL-2 and know just what possibilities can be achieved. I guess I'm just fed up with porked adjustments that end up in public hands.

Ok, vent off.

Thanks for listening.

[SEE]

Spit 2a best Climb Rate was around 3000 ft per minute - to 10,000ft should be less than 4 minutes - have you timed it in game Catseye?

Spit1's was around 2500ft per minute (depending on prop fitted - csp a bit better).

Hurri had slower rate of climb but I don't know the exact figure.

I haven't timed them but I think it takes about 10 minutes to get to my preferred altitude and seemed right so never actually timed in game.

You don't see many Rotol Hurris on line any more thats for sure - mainly Spits but I still like the 1a.

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by SEE

Spit 2a best Climb Rate was around 3000 ft per minute - to 10,000ft should be less than 4 minutes - have you timed it in game Catseye?

Spit1's was around 2500ft per minute (depending on prop fitted - csp a bit better).

I haven't timed them but I think it takes about 10 minutes to get to my preferred altitude and seemed right so never actually timed in game.

I'll do some detailed timings. Trying to maintain 2500 - 3000 ft./min seems to be problematic with engine management. ie., overheat. Initially, I like to get to 10k with best climb rate and trim the aircraft accordingly. Then, to reduce rate for a climb rate of 1000 ft./min and maintain a higher speed to become less vulnerable up to 12-14k depending.

I've noticed that if the Spit is pushed right now from takeoff, and the guages run high, and then you cruise and the temps drop - if you push it again the temps rise quickly and engine damage ensues quicker than - if you hold level flight boost 4 & 2400 rpm for a bit and ease up into a climb of 2000 ft/m, when you push the throttle hard after, overheating does not seem to be a problem from that point on and gives much more extended time for combat at high settings.

What I am saying is - that it is interesting that pushing for optimum climb rate, can reduse combat performance even if the combat takes place 10-15 min later.

Interesting - I guess I'm struggling with what it was for those pilots to push a hard climb to 25k then get into combat when in our sim pushing to 10k and getting into combat results in serious engine damage in short order.

Just some thoughts.

Cheers

[SEE]

Try testing and post findings but try this as well - as soon as wheels up, 3000 RPM Straight and Level to 200MPH+, set PP to approx 2,700 rpm then start a full throttle climb at around 2500 feet per minute - this seems to give me optimum engine temps and best time to around 18K.

[Kwiatek]

According to RL data test :

Spitfire MK1 take off weight 6,050 lbs with CSP should climb at 6 1/4 lbs 2600 RPM with 2800-2900 ft/min up to 11 000 ft then climb rate decrase



Spit Mk1 with Merlin III but 100 Octan should have even better climb rate beacuse of higher RPMs limitation - 2850 instead 2600 RPMs during climb power settings.

Spitfire MK II at 6172 lb ( so heavier then SPitfire MK1) had little better climb rate then Spitfire MK1 but with higher power settings - +9 lbs at 2850 RPMs.

[Insuber]

Kwiatek you are a mine of knowledge

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Insuber

Kwiatek you are a mine of knowledge

I just rather know where to find and use mine of knowledge

BTW i mined these subcject some time ago expecially BOB era fighters ( but not only BOB - i know something about Fw 190 and later version of 109 and SPit too ) when i was modding flight models for Ultr@Pack.

Also as not only armchair pilot such things interesting me a little even if i would not have a chance to fly real Spitfire or 109

[ATAG_Dutch]

Hiya Cats,

As it happens, I and another ATAG member performed some time to climb tests up to 10,000ft pre-patch, and found that the 2-speed prop Spit matched the 87 octane figs quite well , but the CSP prop Spit 'MkIa' in the game had exactly the same rate of climb as the 2-speed prop version (bearing in mind the CSP on the Ia came out in a patch last year).

The Spit II and Hurri Rotol also matched published time to climb data very well too, again pre-patch.

This was all using the optimum climb speeds and rpm stated in the pilot's note etc, or available from various websites.

Obviously human error came into optimising the climb rates for all of them, as opposed to the computer programme which tests the game's flight models, but then again the real ones weren't flown by computers either.

Time to climb is a great method of testing in my opinion and together with the top speed figures at various altitudes already posted by others would give us a pretty good all round picture.

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by Catseye

I'll do some detailed timings. Trying to maintain 2500 - 3000 ft./min seems to be problematic with engine management. ie., overheat.

Hmm, I run a 3kft/min climb all the way up to about 18 without any problems.

Originally Posted by Catseye

Initially, I like to get to 10k with best climb rate and trim the aircraft accordingly. Then, to reduce rate for a climb rate of 1000 ft./min and maintain a higher speed to become less vulnerable up to 12-14k depending.

I would advise getting airborne from rear bases. Then you won't have to worry about getting bounced on the climb up. You should be able to take of at Gravesend or Maidstone and shoot up to 10k before you get to the coast pretty smartly.

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by SEE

Try testing and post findings but try this as well - as soon as wheels up, 3000 RPM Straight and Level to 200MPH+, set PP to approx 2,700 rpm then start a full throttle climb at around 2500 feet per minute - this seems to give me optimum engine temps and best time to around 18K.

Great information!!

I haven't pushed these rpm settings yet for extended time as I've been concerned about overheating issues.

So you hold the rpm at 2,700 - by continuing to modify pitch as altitude rises in order to hold the 2500 ft/min climb all the way to 18k?

Thanks for ino.