4.11 - AI debugging

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

I don't have video but I can send the mission file if you're still interested.

You can compress the mission into a Zip file and then attach it to your post. I can then download it and check it out.

Aviar

[Treetop64]

Attached.

Had to change the extension from .rar to .zip in order to upload.

[Aviar]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

Just flew a ground attack mission early in a Russian campaign on the L'viv map. Formation of nine I-153s to attack a train. I'm in the second of three 3-ship flights.

The train was totally destroyed during the initial bomb run. Multiple bomb hits were scored. The engine, coal car, and every car was hit and destroyed. However, the AI planes returned to make strafing runs on the wrecked engine and continued doing so until they were out of ammunition.

I tested the mission. As I was afraid, you were mistaken. Not all the train cars were destroyed in the bombing. (See the first screenshot)

As you can see, the locomotive was still intact. Now of course the 153's try and kill the remaining locomotive. (See second screenshot)

However, the problem seems to be that their weak machine guns are not powerful enough to destroy the locomotive, as I observed many direct hits. (I know in a recent patch the train damage models were changed, so this may be the answer....they may be more harder to destroy.)

After the 153's run out of ammo, they return to base. I would say that it's up to the player to make sure that locomotive gets destroyed. (Maybe bring rockets next time.)

Aviar

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by Aviar

I tested the mission. As I was afraid, you were mistaken. Not all the train cars were destroyed in the bombing. (See the first screenshot)

As you can see, the locomotive was still intact. Now of course the 153's try and kill the remaining locomotive. (See second screenshot)

However, the problem seems to be that their weak machine guns are not powerful enough to destroy the locomotive, as I observed many direct hits. (I know in a recent patch the train damage models were changed, so this may be the answer....they may be more harder to destroy.)

After the 153's run out of ammo, they return to base. I would say that it's up to the player to make sure that locomotive gets destroyed. (Maybe bring rockets next time.)

Aviar

No disrespect intended, Aviar, but you explaining very obvious things here regarding the lack power of their machine guns in destroying the engine. I already know the I-153's machine guns aren't powerful enough to destroy an "active" locomotive, moving or not. I already understand that any car destroyed in the train will render the entire train immobile. I don't have a particular beef with successfully destroying the engine, coal car, gun car (if it has one) and all the other cars of the train. If some of the train survives, so be it. Move on and fly the next mission.

I've been playing IL-2 since it's initial release ten years ago; by now I know the visual differences between a destroyed and active engine, coal car, gun car, and regular car of both a Soviet and German train in the game.

The issue I pointed out in my original post is that the ENTIRE TRAIN, i.e. the locomotive, coal car, and all the other cars, was destroyed during the initial bomb run in the mission that I flew, and yet the AI made repeated strafing runs on the already destroyed locomotive. Again, the locomotive, and all the other cars, were destroyed. Period. Understand that. This isn't a point of pride or anything like that, it's just a simple fact.

Now, if you flew the mission once and the locomotive actually survived in your particular bomb run, fine. The AI returns to strafe the locomotive and will continue to do so until A: it is successfully destroyed, or B: they run out of ammo. In the case of the I-153 M62, the latter is very likely to occur. Once again, that is understood. Now, fly the mission again, and if the whole train is knocked out (as happened when I flew the mission) you will see that the AI returns to attack the destroyed locomotive anyway. Don't tell me "Oh, I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. The locomotive must have survived."

I wished I had saved a screen shot or video of the mission when it occured, but with the way the video replays are misbehaving in recent patches, I'll have to fly the mission again, hope the entire train gets knocked out again on the bomb run, and screen-shoot what the AI does after that.

I didn't think this would be such a big deal, but simply being told "Oh, no. You've just mistaken the locomotive as being destroyed" is insulting, frankly, and specific clarification was required.

[Aviar]

Fair enough. I certainly didn't mean to insult you in any way. My only excuse is that I was getting ready for work, but I wanted to get back to you as soon as possible and so I was a little rushed.

I went back and tested the mission again. This time the entire train was destroyed (see first screenshot)

After that, the 153's did in fact continue strafing the destroyed locomotive. (See 2nd screenshot) So, you were correct in your report. I would suggest filing an official bug report with TD. You can even use my screenshots if you like, as they usually prefer some sort of 'proof'.

Aviar

[JtD]

Thanks for reporting and confirming. I don't think any further "official" reports are necessary, after all, this is the topic dedicated to AI bug reporting.

[Treetop64]

Thanks for double-checking Aviar. I haven't had time to play in the last couple days.

BTW, no hard feelings. It was like being called a liar when you know you're telling the truth, and that can be frustrating. I know you were only trying to help.

[FC99]

It seems that problem with the trains is the old one, I tried it in 4.05 and it was the same as 4.11.1. Can somebody who have one of the older versions installed double check that.

[sniperton]

I too have some strange AI wing behaviour since 4.11.1. I fly offline missions generated by DCG. I order flight #2 to join, leader says OK, then leaves with his mates for home. Same result when I point out the enemy and give order to attack. It seems to me that pre-set wayponts might be "stronger" then the orders of the squad leader. Can anyone confirm?

[JtD]

Hi sniperton, it is always good to record a track and share it, it is the easiest way for TD to look into issues. They may be very specific and hard to reproduce. In case of AI I've also had issues like you describe, but not always and found it very hard to pinpoint the circumstances under which AI will go foolish.

I know that low fuel level may cause AI to head for home, can this be a reason for what you are seeing?