Aircraft Videos and Images

[335th_GRAthos]

AWESOME!

At 7:30 he iddles the right engine and initiates roll with hard right rudder! No wonder it took them one year to film all sequences!

Thanks for posting.

~S~

[DroopSnoot]

thank you for posting.

I always find it incredible that the F15 was first in tactical use as far back as the mid 70's, so far ahead of its time then but still going strong now.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

there are a lot of rumours going on, but apparently there's a fair chance the RAF will get there and take it back to the UK, or so I was told by a close friend who works for the AF.

If you have more information from that source it would be interesting! Other forums have just like us speculated that it seems that the plane may be HS-B from 260 Squadron, maybe lost on a ferry flight... I have seen no "confirmation" about that anywhere though? Now the fact that it IS HS-B seems to be on many sites though. I want it from the RAF (or rather the RCAF if it's HS-B!).

[PeterPanPan]

Originally Posted by DroopSnoot

thank you for posting.

I always find it incredible that the F15 was first in tactical use as far back as the mid 70's, so far ahead of its time then but still going strong now.

Ditto that. Amazing aircraft - was the first one I really lusted after as a boy! Great vid too - very 'Top Gun'.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by mazex

If you have more information from that source it would be interesting! Other forums have just like us speculated that it seems that the plane may be HS-B from 260 Squadron, maybe lost on a ferry flight... I have seen no "confirmation" about that anywhere though? Now the fact that it IS HS-B seems to be on many sites though. I want it from the RAF (or rather the RCAF if it's HS-B!).

well I talked to my friend last weekend, it's the kinda person that tells you only what he can tell really, and what he said is that the RAF was definitely looking into a recovery, don't know much else for now.

As for the identity and speculation re. landing gear, I would say hold your horses fellas. Doing a landing gears down emergency landing on such a sandy/rocky surface is an easy way to get yourself killed: no sane pilot would ever do that, in fact I'd rather jump with a parachute than attempt an emergency landing.

That's the first thing that surprised me: why bothering doing an emergency landing when you can easily bail out? My conclusion is that the pilot must have been losing altitude and by the time he realised he had to abandon ship he was too low and the plane wouldn't gain altitude, so he tried to pancake it on the sand. The props show signs of rotation, so it means the engine was still running, albeit probably rough, when he touched the ground. The landing gear must have been up or in an unlocked position, there's no way you can put a taildragger down with gears out on the sand without flipping it.

Another thing, if the plane was part of a ferry flight (you never fly alone in over the desert, let alone if you're on a ferry flight with a damaged plane!), why didn't the rest of the flight pinpoint the location and radio the guy to wait there for a recovery? The LRP SAS would have been able to find the chap.

My guess is that somehow the fella got singled out and got lost.

It's always a bad idea to leave your aircraft when u land it in a remote area: the chances of surviving are higher if you stay in the same place and wait for someone to find you than venturing yourself out.

There was a similar discover in the 60s (although a bit grimmer), an S.79 was found by another oil scouting team, the rests of part of the crew still there. One of the members of crew was found some 150km away from the wreck, but still in the middle of the desert.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

well I talked to my friend last weekend, it's the kinda person that tells you only what he can tell really, and what he said is that the RAF was definitely looking into a recovery, don't know much else for now.

As for the identity and speculation re. landing gear, I would say hold your horses fellas. Doing a landing gears down emergency landing on such a sandy/rocky surface is an easy way to get yourself killed: no sane pilot would ever do that, in fact I'd rather jump with a parachute than attempt an emergency landing.

That's the first thing that surprised me: why bothering doing an emergency landing when you can easily bail out? My conclusion is that the pilot must have been losing altitude and by the time he realised he had to abandon ship he was too low and the plane wouldn't gain altitude, so he tried to pancake it on the sand. The props show signs of rotation, so it means the engine was still running, albeit probably rough, when he touched the ground. The landing gear must have been up or in an unlocked position, there's no way you can put a taildragger down with gears out on the sand without flipping it.

Another thing, if the plane was part of a ferry flight (you never fly alone in over the desert, let alone if you're on a ferry flight with a damaged plane!), why didn't the rest of the flight pinpoint the location and radio the guy to wait there for a recovery? The LRP SAS would have been able to find the chap.

My guess is that somehow the fella got singled out and got lost.

It's always a bad idea to leave your aircraft when u land it in a remote area: the chances of surviving are higher if you stay in the same place and wait for someone to find you than venturing yourself out.

There was a similar discover in the 60s (although a bit grimmer), an S.79 was found by another oil scouting team, the rests of part of the crew still there. One of the members of crew was found some 150km away from the wreck, but still in the middle of the desert.

But still, doing a gear up landing on with a P-40 in the desert should not tear the wheels out of their bays a few hundred meters from the plane? At the same time like you say it's madness to land with the gear down as it really should top the aircraft over? Maybe he was too low to bail out when he realized he was loosing power? Maybe he was really scared of using the silk? I've had a parachute on my back hundreds of times but never used it - if the plane is still in one piece it takes a tough decision to bail out, especially if you can't bring the reserve water tucked away somewhere in the plane with you?

Speculations...

But like you say, a solo ferry flight in a damaged plane sounds weird - but the diary note seems to indicate that it was the case for that AC with the damaged undercarriage... In the middle of war there are maybe weird decisions taken?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by mazex

But still, doing a gear up landing on with a P-40 in the desert should not tear the wheels out of their bays a few hundred meters from the plane?

there are a lot of rocks around, the wheels are turned towards the wing in a semi-retracted position, it wouldn't surprise me if they were torn apart.

Check this video of a Mustang doing a very bad (but relatively controlled) landing to get an idea of what happens to landing gears

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XuMylC7gSc

At the same time like you say it's madness to land with the gear down as it really should top the aircraft over? Maybe he was too low to bail out when he realized he was loosing power? Maybe he was really scared of using the silk? I've had a parachute on my back hundreds of times but never used it - if the plane is still in one piece it takes a tough decision to bail out, especially if you can't bring the reserve water tucked away somewhere in the plane with you?

Speculations...

But like you say, a solo ferry flight in a damaged plane sounds weird - but the diary note seems to indicate that it was the case for that AC with the damaged undercarriage... In the middle of war there are maybe weird decisions taken?

well yeah, definitely an unwise decision to fly solo in the desert, no matter if with an efficient aircraft or not. My guess again is that the landing gears were unlocked and hanging loose from the wings when he touched down, and even if he radioed a Mayday there's a fair chance he didn't give his position or the message wasn't picked up at all.

There are some deaths in war that are left untold just because you come to the sad realisation that they could have been avoided, had a wiser line of decision been taken.

[mazex]

Arghh! That is a truly awful landing and it's amazing that it did not end worse! He must have misjudged the flare completely due to low speed as he must have known the road was there? Looks like the Mustang has a gear the would fit for carrier landnings!

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by mazex

Arghh! That is a truly awful landing and it's amazing that it did not end worse! He must have misjudged the flare completely due to low speed as he must have known the road was there? Looks like the Mustang has a gear the would fit for carrier landnings!

yeah, that ramp got a couple of pilots before, there's a video of a B-17 doing the same, but thanks to the big wing lift the pilot managed to hold it without causing damage.

This is the main thing I think we miss in most sims (although a now ancient sim called "Fighter Squadron: The Screaming Demons Over Europe" had it): flexible/bendable airframes. Stuff does not simply break, it bends (and it does it a lot on airframes).

AFAIK there were trials for Mustangs on aircraft carriers, but laminar flow wings can be quite unforgiving

[BadAim]

The Mustang in the video lost power as it was coming in (did you notice the puff of smoke?) and the pilot had to let her settle well short of the runway, the berm that the plane hit was supposed to be the edge of the field. I would say that considering the circumstances, that was an excellent landing.

As for the speculation about landing versus parachuting, I can certainly see the reluctance to jump out of a perfectly land-able aircraft. Hartmann belly flopped some 17 or so aircraft before being forced to bail out of one that was literally falling apart. Parachutes were an unknown quantity, landing a plane was, even if it was damaged.

It will be interesting to find the real story. If it's indeed there to be found.