The Crystal Ball 2

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by PotNoodles

Then why is it that they haven't released the patch due to public pressure? Please don't tell me it's because they have learn a lesson when it's their job to know about development and business to be in this industry.

Go back and see what people said in the dev update thread where Black6 said about not wanting to release a broken beta patch. Does this look like public pressure to release to you?

This a red herring.

Any so-called 'pressure' to release the patch is miniscule and brings nothing to bear by way of leverage. As you know, Carguy et al

But it neatly side-steps the point raised by Wolf Rider...that the initial release was due to public pressure. That assertion is total tripe.

The irony is that there has been pressure on for at least a year to release a working, workable product. This is just another merry diversion.

Blaming the customers for this debacle is so detached from reality it smacks of genius.

[PotNoodles]

Originally Posted by carguy_

Go back and see what people said in the dev update thread where Black6 said about not wanting to release a broken beta patch. Does this look like public pressure to release to you?

I haven't read it, but I'm agreeing that they won't release a patch due to public pressure. That won't stop people complaining though because the game is still on sale and people are still buying it. These are the people that are just finding out that the game is broken and have nowhere else to turn. I just think it's sad that these people are then ridiculed here with comments like whining and all the other bullcrap, simply because they have purchased something in good faith and want to complain because they have found out it's not working.

[gonk]

To me it is not about a mythical patch, it is about a broken game and broken promises that were listed all over the net...including in these forums...prior to me purchasing this game.


eg.. New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support...????

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=18201

OLEG: Another reason we included the Su-26 is pilots from real aerobatic teams requested it. They used Il-2 for the training in the past. In Cliffs of Dover they can fly a real sport plane.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/08/il...ya-shevchenko/


Neither have appeared, 12 months after the release. If the project was so short on cash and wanted some money to continue, it would of been wiser to release it as a beta to people who Pre-Order and pay. I have done this on a number of games and accept the bugs and missing features.

Games are a lot more complex than they used to be and with that come bugs. I accept that a game will never be 100% free of them but the quality of this release was a total cock-up. And the people who keep asking for the patch to be with held until it is 100%....it ain't going to happen..... So, they are doing a master re-write and that will only end in tears, as again it will contain bugs. Small beta patches on a regular basis will be more efficient that a total re-write that expects to be fully functional...

I am not happy and will not be rushing to buy the next DLC on initial release. I probably will buy it, if this game ever stabilises but that will probably be when it is on special... thus cutting into the profit.

Good luck in the future... I don't like to see companies that produce games like these disappear... The market is too small as it is... but this must of done irreparable damage to consumer confidence and will affect the bottom line...

Now they can surround themselves with sycophants and go the way of all good governments/dictators/companies who do this... Or they can harden up and release it.....put up with well deserved criticism and work through the problems....

[OB1]

Originally Posted by gonk

To me it is not about a mythical patch, it is about......

+1

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by PotNoodles

Everyone knows you have the right to complain about something you have purchased and where else do these people go to complain?

Sure I can play that game. Again. And again.

So here goes.

There was plenty information on the initial fiasco of release from both russian forums aswell as folks overseas who bought the game. When CloD hit the shelves at stores near me (approx. April 10 2011) I already knew everything about the bugs when I bought it. I don`t see why anyone who doesn`t check the reviews (and they are devastating) should have the free pass onto registering here and flaming. Because that is what 90% of such people do. Besides bothering natural and neutral newcomers it is boring and has no constructive thought whatsoever. I can see why mods do not allow it. If you are unable or just do not want to be a wise or merely respectful critic, then you are free to complain on some other boards.

I`m sure that only a small minority of those complainers have even noticed that, besides of all the critics and flames, 1C`s product policy is catching up to them. Neutral fans won`t touch BoM until CloD is fixed. I`m starting to have second thoughts about getting it also. All that is needed is facts. A year after release this game still has serious show stoppers. IL2 did have such at the start, but not after a whole year. None of the devs flaming and needless refund threads were needed for this. None of this changed anything. People are quickly starting to lose any interest in this project which is the effect of 1C not being able to set their program straight.

[PotNoodles]

Originally Posted by carguy_

Sure I can play that game. Again. And again.

So here goes.

There was plenty information on the initial fiasco of release from both russian forums aswell as folks overseas who bought the game. When CloD hit the shelves at stores near me (approx. April 10 2011) I already knew everything about the bugs when I bought it. I don`t see why anyone who doesn`t check the reviews (and they are devastating) should have the free pass onto registering here and flaming. Because that is what 90% of such people do.

Have you ever watched a film you have been told is bad and thought it was actually quite good? Now can you see how reviews don't tell us much at all? I bought the game when it first came out because I had followed it's development and trusted the development team to deliver what they had promised, I didn't need to look at the reviews because I took their word for it. Another person may have just walked into a shop or saw it online and thought, I'll have that, this sounds a blast after reading the back cover of the game.. Which by the way also promises so much. So to answer your question.. Do people have the right to complain? Yes I think I do because many will have listened to the developers or even read the back cover of the game promising so much. Had they were told it was still broken I don't think they would have purchased it do you?

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by gonk

To me it is not about a mythical patch, it is about a broken game and broken promises that were listed all over the net...including in these forums...prior to me purchasing this game.


eg.. New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support...????

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=18201

DX11 API support is in game as advertised http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=31213&page=2

Features will come later if the sequel survives, project not cancelled and MG not closed (which is normal in business). Too early now for them http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...62&postcount=9

Carguy said:

>>I can play that game again. And again.<<

Well, try stopping it. Try answering the specific points instead.

>>There was plenty information on the initial fiasco of release from both russian forums aswell as folks overseas who bought the game.<<

You said it - 'initial fiasco of release'.

So - you should have to read endless forum reports to decide whether to buy a game, remembering that there are plenty of die-hard supporters embroidering and embellishing, making it very hard to distinguish truth from disingenuous clap-trap? And people's money is at stake. The silleer critics can be filtered out by the same token.

...but hold on, aren't we supposed to take something from the pre-reealse info of the devs and publishers themselves? Quite possibly. And if we do that we find a vacuum, then an eleventh hour 'half-of-it is missing' admission on the eve of release.

>>When CloD hit the shelves at stores near me (approx. April 10 2011) I already knew everything about the bugs when I bought it.<<

Good for you. And you still bought it despite it being a 'fiasco', in your own words? And so everyone else should do the same, including, presumably, those for whom web access is that much more restricted and/or difficult?

>>I don`t see why anyone who doesn`t check the reviews (and they are devastating) should have the free pass onto registering here and flaming. <<

It isn't flaming to be truthful, as has been said ad nauseum.

Either the was a fiasco or it wasn't. In your own words, it was. Surely that justifies some complaining? And if some idiots decide to go after those who complain, well bully for them. But it doesn't distract (ultimately) from what is happening - it simply takes a wee bit longer to deal with their ego and loyalty-as-excuse-for-attack. There are good loyal supporters also, who dont go after the critics as much.

The protecting-our-hobby brigade are not worth talking about.

>>Because that is what 90% of such people do. Besides bothering natural and neutral newcomers it is boring and has no constructive thought whatsoever. <<

Quite the opposite. It allows people to register their dissatisfaction, feel informed, and know what - if anything - is being done about it. All very real and natural actions and emotions that take place in all walks of life. Trying to stop it is beyond silly, and only results in more pressure being vented (as happens here). It is pointless, and fundamentally dishonest.

>>I can see why mods do not allow it. If you are unable or just do not want to be a wise or merely respectful critic, then you are free to complain on some other boards.<<

There we have it. Complain and you're not being wise and respectful. Don't and you are. Reductio ad absurdam. Or codswallop.

>>I`m sure that only a small minority of those complainers have even noticed that, besides of all the critics and flames, 1C`s product policy is catching up to them. <<

In what way? If you mean because many people feel badly let-down and badly treated, then good. That's the way of the world. People register dissatisfaction with a poor product, poor treatment. Good - let them. It doesn't mean you have to dismember the company making the product.

>>Neutral fans won`t touch BoM until CloD is fixed. I`m starting to have second thoughts about getting it also.<<

Neutral fans are just that - neutral. And should be allowed to read both sides.

>>All that is needed is facts. A year after release this game still has serious show stoppers.<<

Indeedy, so concentrate on them, and stop going after those who have constructive criticism or want to know if real fixes are likely to happen. In our lifetime.

>> IL2 did have such at the start, but not after a whole year. None of the devs flaming and needless refund threads were needed for this.<<

This isn't that. It's a whole panty-twisting bunch worse. Lot's of twisted panties. The critics realise this. Even some of the die-hard fans are beginning to realise this.

>>None of this changed anything. People are quickly starting to lose any interest in this project which is the effect of 1C not being able to set their program straight. <<

Absolutely.

And if the devs do set their program straight, good for them and we'll support them - if there are enough left to support them. But so far the indications are that they have botched everything from pre-release, to release, to post-release, to sequel announcement, to post-release patching.
There is only so much botching you can do before people call it a day.
Despite running apparently on empty, they still have residual goodwill, and people want to keep the genre going - which is good. Whether they are the company to do it, and whether they even *can* do it, is open to question.

If people want to complain, let them. Trying to stop the complaining just makes things worse.

Ben

[PotNoodles]

Spot on