109 elevator trim

[Osprey]

I don't care how skilled they are or aren't. The issue is one of "was it realistically possible?". Obviously trim was regularly adjusted before certain actions were taken, such as dives, but this is different to making 2 or 3 degrees of movement inside 2 seconds whilst in the dive itself. From what I've read so far it appears that the trim adjustment is too fast compared with real life, therefore historically inaccurate.

@Crump. You do seem to dismiss things unless it is absolutely proven to you, possibly in the knowledge that you know that evidence to the level you require is not possible. This is why we use deduction, common sense and trim off the extreme viewpoints to gain a sensible perspective on the situation. To be honest mate, I'm not sure you are able to contribute anything to any discussion involving history because of this approach, and this becomes harder as less is known and greater speculation is required because it would never be possible to satisfy your requirements.
I ask you, since you play devils advocate for this discussion, do you hold the belief that what we have now is correct? According to your logic it cannot be.

[robtek]

I believe OM and his team have spent more time evaluating the timing of the trim wheel than we did/do here and the 5 to 6 seconds we have now didn't come out of thin air.

Imo it would be feasible in that time frame, but that is irrelevant, as the actual change is not the full range anyway.

That would mean we are talking about a imagined (imo) "advantage" of a few tenths of a second while actuating the trim and thereby drastically reducing the advantages in the following fight after the first seconds.

This discussion would be interesting if we had somehow corrected and validated FM's, which we dont have, rendering the discussion at this time senseless.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by robtek

I believe OM and his team have spent more time evaluating the timing of the trim wheel than we did/do here and the 5 to 6 seconds we have now didn't come out of thin air.

Oh yes there are no bugs whatsoever in this sim

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Oh yes there are no bugs whatsoever in this sim

If you really believe that you might need a reality check.

A few bugs dont devalue the rest!

[Crumpp]

I believe OM and his team have spent more time evaluating the timing of the trim wheel than we did/do here and the 5 to 6 seconds we have now didn't come out of thin air.

That seems about right.

You do seem to dismiss things unless it is absolutely proven to you

No, if it does not make sense, it does not make sense.

It is like having a fuel reserve of 2:1.....It does not make sense.

[SlipBall]

When there are mechanical questions to be answered, I always reach for my Haynes

http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/666

http://www.haynes.com/products/sfID1/115/sfID2/125

anybody have one?

[WTE_Galway]

3.22 here ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgvfklVzYZo

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

3.22 here ...

He starts turning back (nose up), at 3:23, hits the stop at 3:28. That's 5 seconds.

Don't know how many turns or what starting position that was from though. But judging from the paint chips on certain parts of the wheel only appearing once, I'd say that was not even a full revolution.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

He starts turning back (nose up), at 3:23, hits the stop at 3:28. That's 5 seconds.

Don't know how many turns or what starting position that was from though. But judging from the paint chips on certain parts of the wheel only appearing once, I'd say that was not even a full revolution.

Yes exactly, we don't know by how many degrees he actually trimmed the a/c. There is a cut and change of camera position to take a shot of that area. It seems like he's been turning the wheel before the cut as the hand is already in the movement. Great find anyway, you can actually see the gears and the chain speed. This person grabbed the wheel 6 times doing sort of 1/5 turns so I guess you're right, it appears to be a one full turn +-. Only assuming that he started in neutral position (0) and with 5.75 full turns for full range of 11 degrees, it seems to give us a good picture about the operation.

It looks like the original assumption was correct and this is not correctly represented in the sim at the moment. The problem is with other a/c, too (and their rather too swift and easy elevator trim response) but the plane benefiting from this fact the most (due to RL vs. sim discrepancies) is the 109.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by robtek

If you really believe that you might need a reality check.

I was being ironic, robtek With all due respect, the devs have modelled too many things plain wrong on too many levels, for me to have any confidence in their research and attention to detail. (The good thing is they might as well fix these issues one day and they seem to listen).

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I would not take the static display museum film of some unknown guy working the controls of some unknown condition aircraft as the standard for timing. That thing is kind of a joke actually.

That 'thing' is actually a video from A2A dev. team

Originally Posted by Crumpp

You don't casually work then either, you are pretty busy on final and don't have time to waste.

Yes, hence the design and purpose of the trim and flap wheel

Anyway Crumpp, next time you fly your 109, would you be so kind and report back to us how it really works?