Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[41Sqn_Banks]

Even your own link says says that the first squadron (No. 611) received them in August 1940. Then there are excerpts from the Operational Record Book of No. 611 Squadron which confirm the first operational use in August 1940. http://www.spitfireperformance.com/no611-orb.jpg

But obviously your claim switched from "service introduction" to "significant use". There was significant use in one squadron. Significant use in whole Fighter Command is of course a different story.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

It's hard to imagine any significant use of the II during august

It happened in Laneworld. You know, the place where Spitfires were flying with armor, CSPs and 100 octane since before the war.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

The question I ask is this:-
When you know with an absolute certainty, that the quote you are making is wrong and misleading, why do you keep mentioning it as part of your evidence?

What I know with an absolute certainty is that there is a Spitfire I manual and a Spitfire II manual, both from June-July 1940 and both specify both 87 octane and 100 octane limits.

I also know for certainty that you have an idiotic thesis why to dismiss yet another source which is clearly dated June 1940 and notes what limits apply 'when 100 octane fuel is used' and not 87.

Guess what, I just do not give credit to neither this idiotic thesis of yours, neither the other which says that when British papers say select fighter squadrons, it's 'a typo', nor the one which says its not a typo but it was reveresed later, nor the one which says the only 100 octane fuel the Germans had was from captured British stock, nor the one which says that no Spitfire or Hurricane had two pitch propeller in the Battle of Britain and so on.

Guess what, you simply have no credibility left in my eye.

Unless of course you believe it to be true and that the RAF had Mk II spits in July 1940 with 2 x 20mm and 4 x LMG which is what your pilots notes say.

Of course they had. Look up Spitfire the history, on page 60 in my edition :

"P9504... still had four of the original Browning MG mountings in the wings. It was used to test a trial installation of two Hispano cannon and four Browning guns... within days a second Spitfire, X4257 had a wing built from scratch, with the new armament and service trials begun on 20 August. Five days later R6761, 6770,6889,6904 and 6919 were withdrawn from No.19 and modified to the same standards. etc.."

P9504 was a Mark I, the first produced a/c with 4 x 7.7 + 2 x 20mm, first flight 30 April 1940.

People are free to look at these links, and if you do not reply with an explanation may well make their own mind up as to why.

Boooh, more childish threats reminding me of dire consequences. Had it crossed your mind that I usually do not reply to your posts because I find them a waste of time, being illogical, wishful and of no consequence, clinging fanatically to an idea you cannot prove at all?

How about just taking Crumpp's advice which seem to be the majority view here anyway - admitting that we (you) simply do not know the exact details (yet) and have really no solid idea how many Squadrons were employing 100 octane fuel?

[NZtyphoon]

The only unit using the Mk II in combat from August - September was 611 Sqn based at Digby; the first significant action I can find in The Battle of Britain Then and Now Vol V was on 21st August when P7290, P7304, P7303, P7292 (P7305 damaged hitting a chock while landing) were damaged during combat against Do 17s of KG2: one Do 17 was shot down while two collided and crashed (pp.373, 591).

The next entry is for September 9 when P7320 force landed, out of fuel, then September 11 when P7298 was set light during combat and crashed, while P3721 was heavily damaged by an He 111 and crashed on landing category C2 (pp 441, 446). Other units to start equipping in September included 74, 266 and 603 Sqns, although there seemed to be some swapping around, and 421 Flight (later 91 Sqn).

[41Sqn_Banks]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...3&d=1332019557

Amended in Vol. I by A.L.31
and in P.N. by A.L./L

As we can see at the top of the page it has been amended. The version of the Pilot's Notes that don't mention 87 octane fuel is not amended, i.e. it contains the initial content from June/July 1940.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

The book ref. :

Performance of a Supercharged Aero Engine
Hooker, Stanley 1872922112
Rolls Royce Heritage Trust

http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Su...6&sr=8-2-fkmr0

(seems the price has increased - the bill I dug out of my archives says 6.53€ !)

Thanks for that, I'll do some amazoning.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...3&d=1332019557

As we can see at the top of the page it has been amended.

And the testing for this was done in 1939; "...it being observed that the Merlin XII has been type tested and approved for 12½ lbs. boost take off conditions." (para 5)

[Al Schlageter]

Glider

Unless of course you believe it to be true and that the RAF had Mk II spits in July 1940 with 2 x 20mm and 4 x LMG which is what your pilots notes say.

Barbi

"P9504... still had four of the original Browning MG mountings in the wings. It was used to test a trial installation of two Hispano cannon and four Browning guns... within days a second Spitfire, X4257 had a wing built from scratch, with the new armament and service trials begun on 20 August. Five days later R6761, 6770,6889,6904 and 6919 were withdrawn from No.19 and modified to the same standards. etc.."

Seems Barbi doesn't know the difference between July and August.

X4257 Ib 1037 EA MIII FF 16-8-40 6MU 20-8-40 first Spit with 'B' wing Type 340 AMDP EA 30-8-40 RAE 3-9-40 AAEE 20-10-40 1CRU new eng 8MU 15-11-40 AFDU Duxford 11-1-41 R-RH 10-2-41 M45 fitt redesignate FVB 92S 16-2-41 service trials engine failed crashed Maidstone 19-3-41 AST 411S 8-11-41 AAEE 1-42 R/T function trials at high alt with R7120 (FVI) 242S 25-9-42 VASM 5-4-43 fuel syst mods wing stiff 118S 2-7-43 64S 25-9-43 power loss force-landed hit obst nr Lodiswell S Devon CE SOC 3-7-44 F/O W Smart killed

[Glider]

He obviously will not mind the RAF using the IIB in July 1940. Can I have one please.

Being serious for a moment, do you know when the first IIB was built, the ones quoted are Spit IB's

Another small point is that anyone who has seen the RAF Pilots Notes will see that the format of the one that Kurfurst quotes, isn't an original document. The format didn't change until well after the war. My notes for the Hunter are still in the WW2 standard layout.

[fruitbat]

Don't know when they were built, but i believe 92 squadron were the first to use them operationally in jan 41.