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[baronWastelan]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Ah interesting, still very glad the UK went for the CTOL version

Estimates for adapting HMS Prince of Wales so that it can be used by the Joint Strike Fighter are understood have risen from £500 million to £1.8 billion.

Millions have already been spent on studies to look at how to convert the ship after ministers decided to scrap the jump-jet variant of the plane in favour of a conventional take-off and landing model. But so great is the rise in total costs, ministers are considering abandoning the plan and reverting to the Ministry of Defence’s original proposals.

Philip Hammond, the Defence Secretary, believes there is not enough money in the budget to afford the £300 million a year to carry out the work over six years.

“We are certainly looking at what’s affordable and what can be done in terms of risk and cost,” said an MoD official. “If you have an unaffordable programme you cannot ignore it.” The move is likely to be embarrassing for the Government as the changes were at the heart of the Strategic Defence and Security Review in 2010. It will also heighten criticism of the Government for disbanding the fleet of Harrier jets and selling them to US Marine Corps for “peanuts”.

Under the new plans, the Government is expected to choose the jump-jet version of the JSF, even though the take-off and landing model can fly further and carry more bombs.

The decision will also mean an end to plans for joint-carrier operations with French and American ships as they are only equipped to handle conventional fighters. To take off and land on HMS Prince of Wales, the vessel needed to be fitted with a catapult system to launch the aircraft and a “trap” to slow planes down and stop them when they land.

The MoD has earmarked up to £80 million for the conversion feasibility study and half the money has been spent.

Pressure is mounting on ministers to make a decision because of the time it will take to refit the carrier. More than 200 Navy sailors and fliers are about to begin training on US and French carriers to ensure the British ships have qualified crews when launched. Mr Hammond’s decision, expected at the end of this month, could be helped after manufacturers said technical problems with the jump-jet fighter were largely resolved.

Full article at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...r-trebles.html

[Kupsised]

Originally Posted by baronWastelan

The decision will also mean an end to plans for joint-carrier operations with French and American ships as they are only equipped to handle conventional fighters. To take off and land on HMS Prince of Wales, the vessel needed to be fitted with a catapult system to launch the aircraft and a “trap” to slow planes down and stop them when they land.

To be honest, it's that the scares me the most. I've never really liked the idea of the RAF having the F35 (although converting Typhoons for carrier operations isn't really an option either, the F35 just reminds me too much of the F111), but to not take the CTOL version and miss out on the opportunity to cooperate with the French would be a huge missed opportunity. We have the chance to begin serious European military cooperation with the French (obviously outside of NATO, but that doesn't count since it isn't European and also the 'pooling' they have there is extremely limited), and ok, it might incurr a massive cost in the short term, but if we could pool our carrier force together it would also make big savings in the long term. If we are going to take the F35, at least take the one that nets us the most benefits, even if it's at a greater short-term cost.

[TomcatViP]

Yeah all that story is ridiculous. I guess that now the Brits are pleased to be the "un-beatable US ally" -e.g building a fleet of modernized Harrier's at a tremendous cost and giving them away to the poor Marines at peanuts price (180M$ - seems I made an error on a previous post). The story does not say if a case of fine whiskey came with the gift .


Thx Baron for the heads-up

[Katana1000S]

As much as I like exotic aircraft I cant help but feel we should have just went with FA/18 Super Hornets for our new carrier, its well proven, a truer tried and tested design and great all round performer and a hell of a lot cheaper than the F-35 ... some insist we need to stay at the cutting edge but we cant afford to and the next step will be even more expensive and so on and so forth.

I guess we cant back out of the F-35 program now, politics are just so backwards sometimes.

[Katana1000S]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Yeah all that story is ridiculous. I guess that now the Brits are pleased to be the "un-beatable US ally" -e.g building a fleet of modernized Harrier's at a tremendous cost and giving them away to the poor Marines at peanuts price (180M$ - seems I made an error on a previous post). The story does not say if a case of fine whiskey came with the gift .


Thx Baron for the heads-up

That was crazy (as was scrapping the Nimrod MR4's when they were finished!!) apparently all our Harriers were sold for the price of about one F-35 ... and the Marines will be flying at least some of them.

As I said, Politicians are just dumb.

[Osprey]

It's not just the price but the timing. Leaving us without a single carrier is embarrassing and a tactical disaster. The Navy and RAF battle each other more than look to our requirement as a country, ending up keeping dozens and dozens of useless Frigates in preference to 2 or 3 decent aircraft carriers with a decent protective destroyer fleet. At least we have Astute class subs.

This is the reward for voting in greedy grinning public school ponces with tons of charisma for the voters but absolutely zero diplomacy, negotiation skill, business acumen, long term strategic idea nor ethical concept. British voters = media led idiots.

[mxmadman]

Originally Posted by Osprey

It's not just the price but the timing. Leaving us without a single carrier is embarrassing and a tactical disaster. The Navy and RAF battle each other more than look to our requirement as a country, ending up keeping dozens and dozens of useless Frigates in preference to 2 or 3 decent aircraft carriers with a decent protective destroyer fleet. At least we have Astute class subs.

This is the reward for voting in greedy grinning public school ponces with tons of charisma for the voters but absolutely zero diplomacy, negotiation skill, business acumen, long term strategic idea nor ethical concept. British voters = media led idiots.

You might as well take out the "British" part of that last sentence. Stupidity does not obey national boundaries, and I'm sure you could insert any other nation into that sentence and no one would argue.

P.S. I'm loving this thread. Need more like this one! Helps me get through my Friday.

Edit: I should clarify: I like all the interesting information and quotes on the first page. I'm not enough of a junkie to search out this info on my own but its great when you guys do it for me!

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by mxmadman

You might as well take out the "British" part of that last sentence. Stupidity does not obey national boundaries, and I'm sure you could insert any other nation into that sentence and no one would argue.

P.S. I'm loving this thread. Need more like this one! Helps me get through my Friday.

Edit: I should clarify: I like all the interesting information and quotes on the first page. I'm not enough of a junkie to search out this info on my own but its great when you guys do it for me!

To be fair, its not just politians. Defense companies have this habit to make great offers, which then run over budget and late on a permanent basis. Those comapnies are so used to getting their equipment taken over by the governments they got fat, lazy and plagued by an entitelment attitude.