Oleg and Team.

[HenFre]

Might be a stupid question, but what does AAA stand for?

[GOZR]

"All Aircraft Arcade" rather get "AAA" since the tittle really doesn't reflect well now.. imo

[tater]

GOZR and I had a misunderstanding at ubi, and I'm confident it was entirely a language issue. Pretty wide latitude for that has to be given on an international forum.

<S>

tater

[Feuerfalke]

I think the basic misconception is the fact that there COULD be an acceptance from Oleg. How would that work?

1. 1C does not have the manpower to control the code that has been altered by the modders. So it's basically an all or nothing situation, no compromise or something.

2. We're not talking about new sounds being added to the game. The so-called soundmod includes modifications to the FM, cockpits, effects, physics, view-system, etc. What would YOU allow and what not? How could you say it's okay to have the bar in the 190 removed, but no 6DOF for the Tempest, because most of the cockpits are not modeled for that?

3. How would you control it online? There are already servers allowing the crack, if they are officially accepted, you cannot be sure if your opponent just modded the soundfiles or if he "by accident" reduced his aircraft weight to 0.1 or added a few hundred horses to his engine?


I guess you asked me about BlackShark?

I'm looking forward to see a really detailed modeled aircraft - that is what I am hoping for in BoB, too.
If you are refering to the mods for LockOn:
That is exactly the reason why I understand Oleg and his policy about these modifications: Once you got shot down by an IR-guided Phoenix AA-missile fired from an A-10 or saw some videos on youtube where a plane fires AMRAAMs like from a gatling-gun on an online server, you'd understand me better, maybe. I love the skins, I love the new textures, but I really, really hate to see an F111 fly like an F15, a B52 with the capabilities of an Su-33, etc. And there is no way to control these mods online!

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally Posted by GOZR

Well here a question that will probably hard to answer but i have to say.

Oleg I'm not playing with IL2 for quite some time and the question i want to ask is .. Why the peoples working to modify IL2 do a much much better work then your team ?


I take off my hat to the Moder team maps maker . and imagine this... a much better work with well less tools.

S~

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! Shame on you!

Sure, there are pretty nice mods out there (which I also use), but in no way does it mean that the modders work is "better" than the ones who created it. You need to consider that the IL-2 team had decisions to make within budget constraints about what goes in and what does not. Modders do it as a hobby, just for fun with no deadlines, and knowing the amount of work it takes, I would not be supprised if they were mostly single guys without much else to do in their spare time. I respect the efforts of anyone that works for a living, and then goes home to a well rounded lifestyle (hence my alias). Though overall, my hats off to all teams that have made IL-2 a better experience, and first and foremost its creators. I'm not worried that a mod I use 'sanctioned' or not, but I condemn the use of cheat mod, and I'm sure legal departments would quickly crush any illegal activities associated with the mods.

[LEXX]

Feuerfalke (page 2)::

SH3 is a very good example for an excellent mod. The same is true for OpenFalcon, which exceeded the original engine by far. But both games are primarily played offline and there is no real competition in either games.

Oleg's sim has always been primarily played offline. The only air combat sims primarily played Online are all Pay~To~Play, which I believe offers additional ways of preventing cheating, as well as preventing piracy.

Feuerfalke::

3. How would you control it online?

Same way we control our social life -- don't hang out with "cheaters."

[tater]

No, mostly (all?) married guys, in at least one team around half with toddlers pulling on them as they try to work.

Having to do things with little guidance, so learn as you go. Appropriate sized, located PTO map, every single airfield unique (every single RL airfield there, too. And each field is based on the real shape on maps, BDA images, etc), and 6 different versions for different time periods—all built in 4-6 months. The 1st month or two not really making the map, just learning how. Note that each of the 6 maps is more complex (and 4X bigger) than the NG map (in no small part due to the fact that each important part is actually researched—ie: how many bunker oil tanks were there on a certain date at a certain place, exactly?). There is obviously time saving with 6X the same terrain with only minor changes. Call it 10xNG min boundary value, 24XNG as the max. That's a fair number of maps for 4 guys in 6 months. Times X map teams.

The next map will be faster, I'd wager, or maybe the same amount of calendar time, but less actual man-hours

<S>

tater

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by crazyivan1970

DEBATEABLE? Are you friggin kidding me? The most disrespectful, poor and baseless post i`v seen in years. Few changes made by group of hackers (sorry, modders) that pleased few people compared with years of work. WTF is that?

Only debatable because for one thing.. Gozr can say what he wants.. but anyone with half a brain knows that whatever work the modders are doing would not be possible if Oleg & his team had not made the sim in the first place.. and the sim itself is an undeniable work of art regardless to what anyone else may say about it's warts...

Gozr's choice of words is not the best.... because let's face it, unless I am getting something completely wrong here even the "new" stuff that the modders are making is not really "new" per se... it is modified, repackaged old stuff.. But the basic point he is making is a good one.. and that point is.... there is a lot coming from one mod site in particular, (the only one I know of.. since I don't do mods thus far so I don't know all the places.. but I am sure there are at least a few more... ) that would have been GREAT stuff to have had added to the sim by the 1C team. Is it better than Oleg's team? In true quality? I doubt it.... best analogy I can come up with is that Oleg built this sim on the atomic level... and the work of the modders is on the molecular level... and no matter what they do it will always be on the molecular level so it wont have the same ...... dynamism for lack of a better term as Oleg's work done on the atomic level... but .... it is still some good stuff.

I would love to be able to skin the statics..... which I still cannot do... unless I use the mods.... or skin ships..... or have more maps in the QMB... or have a K-14 on a P-47.. or have a loadout for rockets on a P-51... or have HVARs on a P-47... and I could go on... but as I said.. I still cannot do that... unless I mod up... which I have chosen not to do as of yet..... but the fact that these guys can offer those things is a good thing with hindsight... and I would hope that if these guys "only care about the sim" as so many of them have said... that they would be more than willing to have their "mods" incorporated into the sim if Oleg was willing to make whatever corrections that could or had to be made to make it more seamless.. Yes I know.. wishfull thinking perhaps on my part... but it would be nice.

I think all Gozr is saying is that things many thought were impossible were not impossible.... I never thought it was... I always thought that it was just a matter of priorities.. and 1C's priority was not and is not fulfilling every single wish of every single member of this community.. [i]especially for free[i]... which is as it should not be. I hope that if nothing else the things I mentioned above .. and yes I know it is purely selfish of me.. because there are probably as many "wishists" as there are community members... but I would hope that some of thiose things could be less painfully added to the sim by 1C... since .. lets face it.. how can you have proprietary rights on wrongfully obtained modifications?

[tater]

In the case of the maps, that's simply not true, bearcat, with all due respect.

The map is the map. If anything, the stock maps were molecular, and the new maps are "atomic." That goes for modder built as well as the "official" player map making teams doing stuff like Burma/Slovakia/Bessarabia, etc. They are simply better in every way than the 1C/RRG maps. Period.

It's not because they are not limited by system specs, either. It's map-size independent. The new maps use some techniques not used (possibly not available, certainly on the original il-2) like the use of (free) SRTM data for elevation maps. What they also have is attention to detail, and a little lateral thinking.

Ian's maps are better, for example, because he's damn skilled, and he cares.

The stock maps, and PF maps for the most part simply do not show that anyone cared at some level. Copy and pasted airfields, for example. I always assumed that only a few airfield types were possible, not that the only limit on airfield appearance was bothering to make them look the way you want. Look at the towns, too. Modders built an app to populate the terrain tile that have streets with buildings along the streets instead of sort of randomly placed.

The bones are GREAT, no one argues that. Really, top notch!

But for map making it is exactly analogous to mission/campaign creation, it's entirely the product of user skill and attention to detail, nothing else.

tater

[Chivas]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Why the peoples working to modify IL2 do a much much better work then your team ?

I take off my hat to the Moder team maps maker . and imagine this... a much better work with well less tools."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't care what language you speak...thats an insult....with very little understanding of the original works constraints of time and making maps for the average computer of the time.

Even if Oleg were interested in AAA's work it would be a total waste of his time, effort, and money. He has moved on to a much improve game engine that should provide the basis for a new series that should keep his company going for many more years.

This should provide us with many more years of game improvements and possibly an even better game engine in time.

Its fine for us to support some part time modders, but be carefull what you wish for.....it could kill the golden goose. There are very few passionate air combat developers out there.