Oleg and Team.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by GOZR

Mais biensure mon p'tit Robert ..
There are some differences in Playing, testing , creating ...
Sounds ? what sounds..

I say that the Moders are doing a fantastic work.

And it is a superior work then almost all the original maps.

For such a long time we have heard that it was impossible etc..
I'm just observing and it's incredible.
I needed to say this because it is breath taking and needed to share.

S~

I'll tone down my rhetoric. I type before i think way too much.

Honestly GOZR, what you claim to be "sharing" was nothing of the sort. To toss in an underhanded insult was something I never expected from you. It was in very poor form.

nuff said by me. apologies for my immaturity.

[LEXX]

Ya, very poor taste, but nobody here can totally refute Gozr's claim, and none have done so. Computer gamers have traditionally been better at creating gaming content than game developers who are best at creating game engines. The new upper level cloud layers look great in some screenshots I saw here recently.

However, I'd say it with better taste. Like thanking Oleg for the fantastic game engine without which no modding would be possible.

Originally Posted by GOZR

Well here a question that will probably hard to answer but i have to say.

Oleg I'm not playing with IL2 for quite some time and the question i want to ask is .. Why the peoples working to modify IL2 do a much much better work then your team ?


I take off my hat to the Moder team maps maker . and imagine this... a much better work with well less tools.

S~

Some of us migrated to this forum to get away from this kind of crap. Gozr, I've seen better posts from you back at the zoo. Thanks for the visit but please come back when you can't stay so long.

[Lo0n]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Ya, very poor taste, but nobody here can totally refute Gozr's claim, and none have done so. Computer gamers have traditionally been better at creating gaming content than game developers who are best at creating game engines. The new upper level cloud layers look great in some screenshots I saw here recently.

However, I'd say it with better taste. Like thanking Oleg for the fantastic game engine without which no modding would be possible.

+1 modding can only be as good as the engine the dev's created.
modded maps may be good but... without olegs work there wouldn't be anything. stock still provides ample opportunity to be bounced while enjoying the view.

[6S.Maraz]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Computer gamers have traditionally been better at creating gaming content than game developers who are best at creating game engines.

This thing is very common, see what happened with the "Silent Hunter III" game: it was an unfinished game full of bugs, the modders made it a completely new, amazing game. Without the modders, Silent Hunter would be now forgot, instead it is still selling (I got my copy and started to play this sim few months ago).

The reasons are many, the most important ones are that game developers have a tight schedule (game must be ready and tested for a given date), they have limited manpower (limited investment), and also of course they are doing everything (game engine, models, maps, etc) so nothing can be neglected in favour of something other. Instead, modders can invest their time as they like, maybe work 20 hours one day and then leave the work for a month, and also each one can concentrate on the things he likes best (Skins, 3D models, maps, effects, etc....), and not other aspects of the game.

So that is NOT because modders are better than 1C team (who worked in an excellent way to make a sim that has lived much longer than any expectations, and is still the best one in flight sims after many years), only that they are working in a different way to achieve different results.

It's a very normal thing, I cannot say really why some people are so upset about that.

Maraz

[Feuerfalke]

I think there are a lot of aspects to think about.

SH3 is a very good example for an excellent mod. The same is true for OpenFalcon, which exceeded the original engine by far. But both games are primarily played offline and there is no real competition in either games.
But then again you'll have to look at Falcon4:AF. There are a lot of people playing this game especially online, but the options to change things was drastically reduced to give a solid basis.
Same is for CFS3 and many other games. Infact Lock On is one of the few successfully played online games, that can be modded to a larger extend, but the players are very dedicated and even then, there are a lot of black sheep on the servers.

And to the modding qualities? Well, it's pretty obvious that modders are far superior to developers - at least by pure number! And as 6S.Maraz said, they don't have a schedule to finish their mods. Even better, they can look at the work done by the programmers, use the data and structure to add their own sniplets.

So, while I still really much enjoy some of the screenshots or options presented, I don't loose the touch to reality. Most if not all successful online-games are locked against ANY mods. Most of them even use Punkbuster or similar tools to detect and ban programs like Teamspeak-Overlay, Log-Analyzing, Keyboard-reprogramming and macro-generating, ping variation, package loss, etc.

We will have the ability to add content to SoW and that is IMHO a great offer of 1C towards the mod(el)ers and skinners out there. But I'm still convinced that IL2 was not were it is now, if it was as open as the CFS-series.

[crazyivan1970]

Lamest post in the history of this forum. Didnt expect that from you Gozr. Sad.

[GOZR]

Well i've wrote this with a bit of a strong point .. to wake up some and I agree... quite a bit shocking isn't it..

To say it's lame well this is a matter of opinion.
The forum was filled with request to fix and redesign textures, cockpits etc..
But we always got an answer that it was impossible .. time.. etc..
Even some really false answers, we also have some maps designer telling that they did the maps quick, rushed and that the engine was very limited .. basicly blaming themself of how bad the engine was.
For Oleg i agree he did what many wouldn't do and we are thanksfull for it , The programmers did a fantastic job with this limited physical engine we are agree but here is what i see the problem it's on the design team, textures etc.. I agree that to have a close sim saved Il2 of destruction but i see also a very good wish from Moders that want just to fix re-textures and maps.. This add so much more to this old sim and suddenly look so much better the last Slovakia map is a typical example of a very well done designed map.

I really suggest Oleg to go into this forum of moder or even contact them to take the best of their works and add it into a new release of 4.09.. why not .. it is so worth it.

Oleg can receive all the help he can get , ask and receive on an heart beat .
Like i say above the moder did what was suppose to be impossible and it is outstanding and Oleg should really take advantage of this for the good of all of us and close the sim for BOB..

But remember guys i love you all .. we are a last breed even Yvan
( Sorry for my rush writing but my 10 months old baby is pulling my leg while writing this and i have to go play now.. )

[csThor]

GOZR ... really. Switch off the PC and take a walk. Are you honestly suggesting that Oleg should retroactively condone the hacking of the file protection by embracing what other people made of it?

This is out of question - you know the term "precedence"? It's irrelevant if the folks at AAA made a marvelous world map which runs on a 286 SX 20 with 70fps at full settings. Oleg cannot take anything from this source or he'd basically sanction the actions of some goons who hacked the code. What kind of message is this? Which publisher would want to cooperate with such a development studio if they condoned what essentially goes against their own interests? And what would 1C say, which is the company that hands out Oleg's paycheck?

Sweet sookie!

[proton45]

Originally Posted by GOZR

Well i've wrote this with a bit of a strong point .. to wake up some and I agree... quite a bit shocking isn't it..

To say it's lame well this is a matter of opinion.
The forum was filled with request to fix and redesign textures, cockpits etc..
But we always got an answer that it was impossible .. time.. etc..
Even some really false answers, we also have some maps designer telling that they did the maps quick, rushed and that the engine was very limited .. basicly blaming themself of how bad the engine was.
For Oleg i agree he did what many wouldn't do and we are thanksfull for it , The programmers did a fantastic job with this limited physical engine we are agree but here is what i see the problem it's on the design team, textures etc.. I agree that to have a close sim saved Il2 of destruction but i see also a very good wish from Moders that want just to fix re-textures and maps.. This add so much more to this old sim and suddenly look so much better the last Slovakia map is a typical example of a very well done designed map.

I really suggest Oleg to go into this forum of moder or even contact them to take the best of their works and add it into a new release of 4.09.. why not .. it is so worth it.

Oleg can receive all the help he can get , ask and receive on an heart beat .
Like i say above the moder did what was suppose to be impossible and it is outstanding and Oleg should really take advantage of this for the good of all of us and close the sim for BOB..

But remember guys i love you all .. we are a last breed even Yvan
( Sorry for my rush writing but my 10 months old baby is pulling my leg while writing this and i have to go play now.. )

Well I guess that shows them... I guess they should have done what you wanted.