Patch 4.11 is a gift to open pit UFO fliers

[WhistlinggDeath]

Wow, this place reminds me of that HL forum.

Caspar - I didnt say I wasnt going to try it. I said I would test it later and I am. Be cool dude and no need for the hate.

Other fliers - The critical difference in 4.11 is not level flight speed , it is time to engine overheat while doing an apex climb.

This is the way Boom and Zoom fighters were designed to work. Period. This is the method of the P51, FW, TA, Tempy, etc.... fully 40% of the planes in the game were designed for. You fly it in level flight and turn horizontally, you usually die. They are designed for the vertical fight, to boom down and zoom right back up using apex climbs that get close to stall speed often when they top out.

They dive and then zoom climb back up (say 2000m in one go from base attack back up close to stalling out).

I can faithfully replicate, putting the TA 152 into a dive with 4.11 and then climb to stall speed (it stalls at about 1870m of climb from whatever altitude you started the climb from, and at about 200 kph), by which time the engine is overheating, IN ONE PASS. Which means about 10 seconds. Apologies to Ice for not being clear about this before but was roughly testing earlier. If I keep this up, the engine is fried by pass 3 or 4. This is directly contrary to all the historical evidence of the late FWs and TAs which where specifically designed for zooming up to the clouds.

THIS STALL CLIMB HEATING IS THE CRITICAL DIFFERENCE OF 4.11 versus 4.10.1. In the older patch, I could get three to five apex climbs before overheat (say roughly 2 to 5 min). Now, in 4.11, I must drop pitch, exit and circle around cooling the engine. That makes my TA or FW or P51 damn near worthless. Why ? Cause I must circle to continually cool the engine and after one steep climb I am back in overheat territory. So I am now left with level flight turning combat and everyone knows how bad the P51 or TA sucks at that against a Spit 25lbs or La7.

As to the level flight data provided by others, still checking. I can see though that the TA has had a significant reduction in abilities (and about 30 kph in level flight speed) from 4.10.1 to 4.11.

Still testing.....

I do not appreciate more gifts being handed to the already underwhelming open pit Spit 25lbs/185/La7 princesses.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Just stop flying with WEP (resp. MW50), auto prop pitch and 110% trottle!!!
No plane/engine was designed to fly at maximum output for 10 minutes!
Whats so hard about that? Every other plane, that you might want to attack with B&Z has the same limits now! Even AI! And BTW: Turn&Burn is much more increasing the temps, as you usually get very slow in turnfights and thus the radiator is not cooling so well. In B&Z you have at least high speeds for at least half of your manuevers.

Differently asked: Why I don't have the problems to fight successfully online and offline?

[WhistlinggDeath]

Caspar, an energy fighter needs every single ounce of boost that it can get most of the time to get up above a spit 25lbs in online combat to secure the potential energy advantage and set up the attack. In a pitched fight between myself and a master spit 25lbs ace, I can in 4.10.1 secure the advantage often, but it takes a long time and very, very.... very careful maneuvering to finally get above them. In 4.11, this is impossible. The spit 25lbs can zoom climb several passes before overheat even becomes a problem while I get one pass and then must exit the field (and this is with both planes on say radiator auto or open and boost, full 110% power). The spit engine can simply out last way, way beyond me, which makes me have only one boom to hit them, and that is if I get to start the fight above them. If even steven co-altitude, I am toast, I must simply pass bye and stay straight, and out gas tank them.

I run a server on Xfire, called WD Fights. It is full real but we (our lab) get some really tough opponents (many from Russia). I would be happy, by switching back and forth to show you this in person (or the top ace of Team D) on my server. I will start with 4.10.1 and then go to 4.11. First I take TA and Team D guy takes spit 25lbs, and then reverse. Then I reset server to 4.11 and we redo the fights. You will notice a MASSIVE change immediately when it is your turn to fly the Ta. You can even tape it for Youtube if you want and bring other Team D members. PM me if interested.

This overheating stuff needs to be fixed and the FW/TA flight models restored to neutrality.

[JimmyBlonde]

4.11 is certainly a gift to opinionated, verbose whiners with nothing to back up their accusations.

[Luno13]

I'm not a good fighter, compared to most online players, but the newest radiator settings are...not that hard to deal with.

If everyone else can do it, even someone like me...well, maybe the problem lies with you?

I really hope you don't call those gentlemen. You will probably give them a heart attack.

[WhistlinggDeath]

You could be right. I might suck at online dogfighting. Many say that.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Still checking on the various data posted by Ice and others.

Interesting data:

Seems the Ta can be caught now in level flight by the Spit 25lbs when both have rad open and boost 110% on (TA levels at 530/540 kph, Spit 25lbs at 550 kph)

Sorry, what... did I just write that. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

But so far, that is what I get in QMB on the Okinawa map.

Not sure yet, but seems the FW and TA dives are not as fast now (will check code maybe tomorrow).

P51, the monster of WWII that soared at 12000m escorting bombers and dove on opponents at 900 kph, can be caught in level flight by spit 25lbs and several other uber planes (P51 goes about 550/560 on 110% with boost, and Spit can now catch it, as can the well known 185 M-71 (two of these were made in WWII) at 580 kph).

Still testing.....

Who designed this patch anyway ?

[jermin]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Just stop flying with WEP (resp. MW50), auto prop pitch and 110% trottle!!!
No plane/engine was designed to fly at maximum output for 10 minutes!
Whats so hard about that? Every other plane, that you might want to attack with B&Z has the same limits now! Even AI! And BTW: Turn&Burn is much more increasing the temps, as you usually get very slow in turnfights and thus the radiator is not cooling so well. In B&Z you have at least high speeds for at least half of your manuevers.

Differently asked: Why I don't have the problems to fight successfully online and offline?

Sorry, Caspar. But I have to disagree with you on this point. MW50 boost WAS supposed to be kept engaged for 10 mins (at most). But go test yourself, engines with MW50 enabled will be damaged well in 5 minutes.

Further more, the real-life test of G10 revealed that it can reach 6000m in 5.8 minutes, but I highly doubt whether you can accomplish this before you cook up the engine in game.

We are not complaining one type of aircraft is not as uber as other aircrafts. We are actually comparing the in-game aircrafts to their real-life counterparts. Isn't this what a flight sim is supposed to do?

To your differently asked question, one possible reason might be that your opponents are not good enough.

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Just stop flying with WEP (resp. MW50), auto prop pitch and 110% trottle!!!
No plane/engine was designed to fly at maximum output for 10 minutes!
Differently asked: Why I don't have the problems to fight successfully online and offline?

Caspar is dead right on this. I have been friends with an actual WWII engineer for all my life, Pete. He flew fighters and bombers and was in on the development of the B-17 and B-29 and worked directly for Hap Arnold.
He said that any aircraft that came back to base and had used WEP, as in breaking the wire at the end of the throttle quadrant to get to WEP, that engine in that aircraft was removed from service to be either overhauled, scrapped or used for parts, the aircraft was not sent back into combat with it.

Also I have worked on internal combustion engines my entire life and know a LOT about them. Even now there is no form of racing where engines are run at WOT for more than a minute or two, everyone has to shut down for turns or the end of the drag-strip or Bonneville salt flats. And sixty years later with all our technology, blown engines are common in the highest levels of motorsports.

If you are zooming and booming in an aircraft and want to keep the engine cool and maintain performance, you have to adjust the prop pitch throughout the entire process. When you are diving and the engine rpms go up you have to change pitch to lower rpms, and when you are zooming back up you have to watch rpms and change pitch to increase them and get the best climb. If you keep one prop pitch in a fight that sees your speed changing from 200km/hr through 700+km/hr, then you are either not going to get all the performance you could be, or you will hurt your engine.

WWII pilots had one engine to get them hundreds or thousands of miles to battle and then back home again, how do you think they treated it?

War Emergency Power was just that for emergencies, the last thing to do to save your life and get home, it was not a combat tool but a defensive feature.

Early B-29s blew entire cylinders off their engines right through the cowling on take-off without even going into WEP.

These pilots were very smart and educated individuals that knew everything about the aircraft they were flying. My friend Pete graduated from Yale University for engineering. Dummies did not get to fly fighter aircraft in WWII, and they will not be able to hack flying REALISTIC settings in IL2 Sturmovik, especially as more realistic features are added to it over time.

If you can not handle flying IL2 on hard settings, then you can merely switch them off and fly settings and fly and host servers that match your caliber...... Or, you can create a mod-pack that changes IL2 into your personal version and interpretation of WWII history such as UP and HSFX......

[jermin]

Caspar is dead right on this. I have been friends with an actual WWII engineer for all my life, Pete. He flew fighters and bombers and was in on the development of the B-17 and B-29 and worked directly for Hap Arnold.

I highly doubt American aircraft engines operates in the same manner as German ones.

He said that any aircraft that came back to base and had used WEP, as in breaking the wire at the end of the throttle quadrant to get to WEP, that engine in that aircraft was removed from service to be either overhauled, scrapped or used for parts, the aircraft was not sent back into combat with it.

Also I have worked on internal combustion engines my entire life and know a LOT about them. Even now there is no form of racing where engines are run at WOT for more than a minute or two, everyone has to shut down for turns or the end of the drag-strip or Bonneville salt flats. And sixty years later with all our technology, blown engines are common in the highest levels of motorsports.

Engine overhaul is not modeled in the game and will never be. No one will play the game if he needs to wait for a week for another flight. So your argument is pointless here.

If you are zooming and booming in an aircraft and want to keep the engine cool and maintain performance, you have to adjust the prop pitch throughout the entire process. When you are diving and the engine rpms go up you have to change pitch to lower rpms, and when you are zooming back up you have to watch rpms and change pitch to increase them and get the best climb. If you keep one prop pitch in a fight that sees your speed changing from 200km/hr through 700+km/hr, then you are either not going to get all the performance you could be, or you will hurt your engine.

German aircrafts had Kommandogerät equipped, which relieved pilots from the heavy workload of adjusting prop pitch. So your suggestion is useless for German fighters.

WWII pilots had one engine to get them hundreds or thousands of miles to battle and then back home again, how do you think they treated it?

Again, this is within the limitation of computer game. It can not be modeled. The original purpose of IL-2 was to portray the air battle in WW2 as realistically as possible. So your argument is pointless.

War Emergency Power was just that for emergencies, the last thing to do to save your life and get home, it was not a combat tool but a defensive feature.

Early B-29s blew entire cylinders off their engines right through the cowling on take-off without even going into WEP.

These pilots were very smart and educated individuals that knew everything about the aircraft they were flying. My friend Pete graduated from Yale University for engineering. Dummies did not get to fly fighter aircraft in WWII, and they will not be able to hack flying REALISTIC settings in IL2 Sturmovik, especially as more realistic features are added to it over time.

You seem to have a good point here. But enabling WEP won't always save your ass. You will finally have to use it in combat. That's why it's called war emergency power not run-home-to-mama power.

Just consider this scenario. You 4-fighter squad has spotted an enymy aircraft formation and soon they also notice you. You ordered to begin the battle, but it turns out that enemy aircraft are on your six because they have better aircrafts, skills or any other possible reasons. You ordered your teammates to enable MW50 and tried to evade. But desperately found that you are not able to out run them. The only way to survive is to destroy them. Now, tell me whether you will use your WEP for dogfight?

You might not want to use WEP for dogfight, but sometimes you don't have choice.

If you can not handle flying IL2 on hard settings, then you can merely switch them off and fly settings and fly and host servers that match your caliber...... Or, you can create a mod-pack that changes IL2 into your personal version and interpretation of WWII history such as UP and HSFX......

Again, please stop deeming complainers as noobs. They might actually turn out to be better than you.