Contact sight problem.. really something to patch!!

[Flanker35M]

S!

I use only the AF at 4x and AA at Application Controlled, the LOD setting in conf.ini has too big hit on FPS and causes stuttering.

[HR_Naglfar]

Originally Posted by AV8R_

OK great, so there are AA, Filtering and LOD
So in summary, there are these two:

• Anisotropic Filtering to 4x and FSAA to Application controlled
• conf.ini and the "MeshShowLod=1" parameter is in the [core] section.

I wonder if these both to be used together, or only one at a time, and on older systems if its better to use only the AA and Filtering strategy. Being that the
MeshShowLod method is frame rate costly.

They are two different fixes for two different problems.

If you have problems sighting contacts, but the contacts are there and it's just that they are very difficult to see, may be changing your graphic conf can improve that.

But there are a LOD problem that some people have and some doesn't. Approx between 800 and 2000m the contacts are simply invisible. If you have this problem then MeshShowLod=1 fix that. If you are lucky and don't have this problem then there's no need of changing anything in the conf.ini.

I don't know the exact cost in FPS, I play in a very old PC and already have very low FPS (and by low I mean 10-15fps) without MeshShowLod=1. But I use it anyway because without it I don't see anything between 800m and 2000m near me.

[AV8R_]

Thanks for the expansion on the application of these workarounds.
Does the development/beta teams know about this trouble that we don't seem
to suffer as much with on IL-46 as we do in COD? (I assume yes, but had to
ask to be complete). If not where do we put in a bug/enhancement request?

Now at the expense of asking a dumb question...
How do you know that the a/c blanks out between 800 and 2000m, like how do
you know something is missing if you can't see it? Was it flying straight at
you the whole time?

I was thinking about a mechanism that might help us with these kinds of a/c
spotting issues. WHy not make a hybrid between padlock and lock on?
So if you look at a position in space, you can hit a spot&lock key function so
that if there was an a/c (within an acceptable visual range of a pilot with 20/20
vision, say at 3km head on per that Navy chart for a fighter sized object)
that it will lock on and zoom in at the bogey for say 3 seconds. This would
emulate squinting and seeing the plane (no matter the pixel and resolution)
setting for a short time. Thus its not a fully automagic padlock, and its not a
box or icon text either. But just allows a short time to see the object better.

Another way to visualize this would be like how we can put our fingers on the
text on an iPhone or iPad and a small zoom in magnifying glass comes up.
The pilot really has to be looking in the right spot in the first place to evoke the
use of the squint2magnify/spot&lock feature. So its not some magical radar padlock.

THis could be an optional feature for the hardest of core players, or have a time
and range selection variable (within an acceptable range). The size of the
space to be magnified could be limited to a few rads, again selectable and
enabled by the host and INI file or GUI. Even the time between being able
to use it can have a timeout so its not overly abused. Kind of like a setup
and hold spec for a edge sensitive flip flop spec. (but I digress, sorry).

Just some out of the box thinking here.

[AV8R_]

@CheeseHawk

That sounds like a boundary condition that is flip flopping/oscillating in the code
which causes the delay between the alogrithm selection and drawing, plus the
added horse power (frame rate robbing) that is done all the time that really is
needed only under certain conditions when employing the mesh switch.
The frame rate hit sounds like overkill, especially for those of us with older systems.

Again, how this kind of boundary condition is solved in electronics is setup and
hold time specs at edge sensitive devices. The old school way was LUT
instead of computational analysis physics on the fly, this made for quick
response times, but at the cost of more switch like boundary conditions.

Sounds like a coding problem that can be solved tho. Just a guess.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by AV8R_

I was thinking about a mechanism that might help us with these kinds of a/c
spotting issues. WHy not make a hybrid between padlock and lock on?
So if you look at a position in space, you can hit a spot&lock key function so
that if there was an a/c (within an acceptable visual range of a pilot with 20/20
vision, say at 3km head on per that Navy chart for a fighter sized object)
that it will lock on and zoom in at the bogey for say 3 seconds. This would
emulate squinting and seeing the plane (no matter the pixel and resolution)
setting for a short time. Thus its not a fully automagic padlock, and its not a
box or icon text either. But just allows a short time to see the object better.

It's something like my idea.

I have to find the time to build a video about it.

[Jazz-Man]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

IMO we need something like an active "labels" function who has not to be invasive: you keep pressing a key (searching mode) and looking constantly in one direction and the labels appear after some seconds based on the distance and the weather condition (clouds, sun ect.) If you lose direct visual with the contact the label disappear and you have to research for it.

I really like this idea, a button incorporated in to the sim that would allow you to tag a contact with a label which would remain on the tagged aircraft until you lost sight of it via a cloud or terrain. That way pilots could keep track of their target without having to enable all icons.

To be fair, I've always thought the best solution we had in Il-2 was simply custom icon settings which gave approximately realistic levels of information based on the distance from target (ie, at 2.0km a black box, at 800m a colored box, and at 100m an ID simulating the spotting of a target, the identifying of that target as a bandit or friendly, and if you were really close, the ability to know who you were fighting as though you were able to read the call-letters on his aircraft, regardless of whether or not you had a hot system).

Unfortunately, some Blue pilots (in IL-2 as well) felt that these settings gave them an unrealistic disadvantage because it was then too easy to spot them as they were coming in to ambush you. At 600kph closure rate, it would take approximately 10 seconds for the aircraft to come within gun range. If those ranges were shortened to 1km, 5 seconds of warning, in the event that the defending pilot spots you at the maximum possible range, seems like a reasonable compromise. One of the problems with this compromise in Il-2 was that it was very easy to engage a target at nearly 1km with super-zoom vision and overly stable gun platforms that most aircraft were.

If you're making your attacks from a good position (high and behind and ideally, out of the sun) the defender is going to have much, much less than those 5-10 seconds (if any at all) to maneuver out of the way. However, under neutral conditions, it would at least level the playing field some based on hardware.

Certainly I'd find it preferable to the old standby of running at extremely low resolution on the biggest monitor possible, which unfortunately continues to offer advantages. Dropping my resolution from my monitors recommended 1920x1200 down to 1366x768 made an enormous difference in "spotting the dot" but the game still dearly suffers from the disappearing plane nonsense.

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Actually, doesn't the padlock work? This would eliminate the problem to a certain extent. I have trackIR and play full switch, so sorry if I'm unaware of padlock related stuff that works in game atm.

Yes, it would do something similar, but many of us have TrackIR and find it very useful to be able to move our own heads around the cockpit. The function Manu was suggesting would work like padlock only instead of locking your head to the target, would tag that specific target with an icon. This, as an alternative to having an icon show up for every plane whether you'd physically spotted it or not.

[TheGrunch]

That's actually ingenious Manu - tagging dots instead of icons being automatically enabled for an enemy. Only problem is that you'd still face the issue when you didn't have time to do anything about it, i.e. if you were already in combat and you spotted a dot arriving with no time/ability to tag it due to manoeuvering, you'd still lose them in the invisible ring area around your aircraft. Easy to solve issues of unfairness just by making sure that if the dot leaves the pilot's view for more than 3-5 secs it is untagged so no tagging people and turning away to check another area of sky for several seconds and then turning back and spotting them again easily. Basically, Manu's idea is great but the LOD issue still needs to be solved.

[AV8R_]

@Manu,

Glad to hear someone like you is thinking along a similar way...

The concept Im thinking of doesn't put labels or boxes around any contact, rather it would make a small area zoom in for better identification.
You would have to move your view to the point you want to squint at before you activate the feature. No automated snap to target like a
conventional padlock does, this takes away from the pilot having to do their own searching. My idea does a localized magnification on demand.

In IL2-46 people can already do this in a way, by using the HOME key zoom in function, so its not like this wasn't a community acceptable thing or cheat.
Im just suggesting we refine it into a limited cone versus the whole screen zooming in. Another possible way to implement it would be similar
to LoMacs SHELM head tracking circular lockon tool. You have to put the circle over the target then hit TAB to make it lock on for the weapon systems.
BUt in IL2 COD, you wouldn't want it to stay locked on and track, that would be too much like a padlock feature. Just have the area zoomable.

Even guys like Adolf Galland had a telescope affixed to the front windshield so he could see the enemy better. Some pilots took binoculars. THis would
help level the playing field for those with different computer systems, monitors, etc. I for one, would not want a conventional padlock or graphic drawn around the bogey.

S!


@CHeeseHawk,
Personally speaking, Id rather have icons than padlock. Icons that come and go with range as currently implement isn't so bad for folks to come up to full realism.
Padlocking I think was a good idea until the TrackIR came along and freed our thumbs from having to search the skies. Now its just too automatic for serious gameplay.

[sorak]

Wish the servers would setup the icons on all the realism servers because of this.. Like replica's Dogfight server.. If you set the icons to appear at a really close distance.. at least you will be able to see what would be obviosly visable during real flight.

Also if you dont have a Head tracking system setup (i dont) its even more impossible to keep the planes visable. As soon as you use the hi-hat pan views to turn your head.. it moves so fast and to much.. you lose your target everytime you move your head in a direction

[David198502]

i dont like the idea of labels or some zoom function to make contacts easier.in my view, it should be hard to spot and track enemies in certain situations.i think it was that way in real life, and its half of the challenge in a combat flight sim.
the only problem we have now, is the code which needs to be changed.
one can see planes easily in a distance of ~50miles as black dots, but when you get closer to a distance where the first manouvers of combat start, the enemy begins to flicker and totally disappears for some seconds.
i think contacts in far distance, should be even harder to spot, than what we have now in game, and the closer contacts should not disappear.thats the only problem we have and that has to be solved.
for the labels or zoom function...im fine with it, as long as it is optional in the realism settings.i dont want to fly on servers where everybody can use this function, while i would refuse to use this kind of cheat, and therefore putting myself in disadvantage.