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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #1  
Old 02-26-2008, 05:55 PM
nearmiss nearmiss is offline
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Originally Posted by bhunter2112 View Post
I have read of Il2 being described as soulless. Maybe true. I remember flying a MCFS2 campaign many years ago where you have to protect transports leaving an island base. The transports were carrying wounded and were taking off. Then the zero's flew in.... a very immersive mission. A little text can really change your feelings about a mission.

I am hoping for a dynamic campaign with a variety of missions but I do believe that the core of the sim is dogfighting !

I am a major IL21946 fanboy but the scripted campaigns were horrible and the dynamic campaign text is mostly non immersive. I do not mind daily front patrols, I am interested in historical accuracy but put a little info in the mission description ! I make my own in the FMB to make up for this.
There are so many things you cannot do with the IL2 FMB. One good example... Pokriskinin flew the P-39 against the Germans and was very successful, because he applied tactics. He would send in the P-40s to attack German Bombers, but he would stair step his P-39s at higher altitudes. Then when the German fighters came in each flight of P-39s would drop into the fight at different times with high energy levels against the German fighters. You cannot duplicate this in IL2, because all the AI aircraft will jump into the battle. Only the player and sometimes his wingman can be held out of the fight. The P-39s were very effective when proper tactics were applied, but in IL2 when all the fighters jump into the furrball the German fighters will always win.

When you build a mission to attack ground targets the AI will persist to attack until they are bingo or out of weapons. During the war fighters would rarely attack ground units more than once, because the odds of getting hit were very high if they persisted to attack. I've had missons where my entire flight and all other friendly flights were eventually destroyed by Flak. I couldn't do anything to prevent the suicide. LOL

There are nowhere near enough programming tools in the IL2 FMB to build anything close to for real combat. The FMB is fine for building a setting for Online missions, because you human players can be told to disengage and they will. You can apply any tactical play as well, because humans can receive and act on good instructions.

Of course, if you just jump into hyperlobby you'll just furrball unless you get involved with a squadron that has other goals.
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Old 03-01-2008, 06:17 PM
leitmotiv leitmotiv is offline
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Excellent post F_IV. I noticed one of the new combat add-ons for FSX has: horrors! no fighters or bombers, but does have a Me 323, and a number of German gliders, and it is all war missions of various types. The FSX add-on with fighters is for WWI and also has a "height climber" zeppelin. Navigating a 1917 "height climber" mission at high altitude from Germany to London would require incredible skill. Just coping with the winds and the blackout would be enough (will the add-on black out city lights?).

I look forward to somebody having missions with night bombers flying from the UK to targets deep in Germany. Just dealing with weather and malfunctions (not to mention finding the target in 1939-42 without the better-trained navigators and technical aids which came in 1943) would be job enough. Right, a PBY patrol would be great. North Atlantic patrol in a Coastal Command Liberator or Fw 200 or Ju 290. Radar night fighters vs bombers would be a real challenge. How about flying the Hump in C-46, C-47, or gas tanker Liberator (the father of one of my friends flew one of these "Booms," as they called them)? If you run into a JAAF fighter, you had better have a plan! Ju 52 over Crete---what a mincing machine, C-47 over Normandy, how about flying a Horsa to land right by Pegasus Bridge? I would really like this. Land a German glider on top of Eben Emael. Flying patrols out of the Aleutians---the worst flying weather in the world. Fly an Oboe equipped Mosquito precisely to drop target markers over a city. Fly an X Gerat-fitted Heinkel 111H to put incendiaries or bombs on targets covered by overcast. These would move the system away from gaming to being a real flight simulator. You would get a real education in how the systems of WWII aircraft worked.

There has to be more flying and less routine cookie cutter arcade brawling.

Last edited by leitmotiv; 03-01-2008 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 03-01-2008, 06:37 PM
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robtek robtek is offline
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@leitmotiv
youve brought it on the point for me.
thats what i would really love.
to be a good pilot with all the handicaps those obsolete technik has,
that would be the real challenge in this game.
and that includes of course real CEM.
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:15 PM
leitmotiv leitmotiv is offline
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If you could takeoff and land in the horrible weather of winter 1943-44, not to mention find a bomber using "Zahme Sau" tactics, you would be an ace pilot of a Bf 110 night fighter! This would be great stuff.
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:42 AM
leitmotiv leitmotiv is offline
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Well, FSX can now support combat, but this first combat add-on is very primitive. Wait 'til really top of the line companies like Shockwave start to produce combat versions of their FSX models---hoo boy!

http://www.abacuspub.com/catalog/s765.htm
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:30 AM
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Feathered_IV Feathered_IV is offline
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Thanks for the encouragement leit'

I found this you tube footage of an FSX Oil-rig rescue op.


Il-2 is nowhere when compared to even this basic out-of-the-box mission. As several people have posted already, there are plenty of last gen sims that are able to handle more imaginative mission scenarios. I sincerely hope that Maddox games give this the thought and care it deserves.
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:57 AM
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Feathered_IV Feathered_IV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leitmotiv View Post
Well, FSX can now support combat, but this first combat add-on is very primitive. Wait 'til really top of the line companies like Shockwave start to produce combat versions of their FSX models---hoo boy!
This is why I found it very interesting that Gennadich ported their DR1 and some scenery from KotS into FSX and packaged it as a "Christmas present" to the community. You just don't go promoting your work in your competition's front yard without first opening a dialogue, or getting your lawyers together at least. Something is definitely cooking between MS and the Gennadich Team.

MS would love to re-enter to combat market, but they don't want to do the grunt work. Gennadich have the stuff, but no corporate backing. Each side would stand to do very well indeed out of joining forces.

And by the way, have you noticed that the GT forum has been taken down again in the last 48hrs....?
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:38 AM
ArcticViper ArcticViper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leitmotiv View Post
Well, FSX can now support combat, but this first combat add-on is very primitive. Wait 'til really top of the line companies like Shockwave start to produce combat versions of their FSX models---hoo boy!

http://www.abacuspub.com/catalog/s765.htm
Ehm, for a start, this is my first post on this forum as I've just joined.
Secondly, why are you discussing combat on FSX on a 1C forum? Combat in FSX will never be worthy of polishing the shoes of IL-2 (If IL-2 was a person)

Now, the general impression I get of what people want is: more, more, more... well, in short anyways...

What I would like to see is the implementation of a select group of the online gaming community, who can carry the message from players on to 1C and Oleg. My personal opinion is that regardless of eyecandy in SoW:BoB, I won't be content with having less aircraft than I have today; having the soundmod and the bombermod brings me up to the region of 300 flyable aircraft!

I don't know what maddox games and others think about the fact that users have found a workaround to making the AI aircraft flyable using cockpits from existing aircraft and changing the sounds to more realistic sounds, but I think there should be no AI only aircraft in the first place and I reckon most people if not all would agree on that.

But from all the stuff I've seen from SoW:BoB so far, I'm most certainly going to invest in it! Keep it up guys, and listen to your users, for we are your salaries
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:10 AM
wjc103 wjc103 is offline
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Along this line of thought, I remember reading some indication that radio operators would have a real role in interaction with the pilot, depending of course on how meaningful this interaction is would add at the very least better immerision.

Also, with the FSX video post above, I wouldn't think that it would be so unreasonable for BoB to have some sort of sea rescue missions or roles, as it would be historically applicable to both sides, example: find the Blenheim crew before they drown or are picked up by Nazi patrol in rough seas.
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