AI is on top of my list - Page 13

He111 · #**121** 10-15-2011, 12:13 AM

Programming AI is difficult ?? yes .. but what were pilots taught to do during a dog-fight? if they were novice .. stick to leader like glue! .. never fly straight for more than <x> seconds in the battle zone .. avoid battle etc

Average Pilots

Spit & Hurricane pilots Attacked 6 oclock - strong bank left or right
109 pilots attacked 6 oclock - nose over, DIVE!
110 pilots attacked 6 oclock - nose over, dive ?? defensive circle?
Defiant pilots attacked 6 oclock low - bank left or right, give gunner view below
Bombers attacked 6 oclock - steady course, slight climb / falls (this is already being done), yaw tail to allow gunners full view (?)

Veteran / ace pilots

Would have their own specialisd tactics that they found work ,as you stated.

The above would make the game realistic.
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buddye · #**122** 10-17-2011, 08:20 PM

I have been asked the following question many times, Can you just pull out the BOBII AI and use it in another Flight Sim?

The BOBII AI could “not” be easily be made into a separate program and used in another Flight Sim as it is tightly integrated with the BOBII design and data. Of course, the BOBII AI design and approach could be implemented in another Flight Sim but the cost would be high in development and testing.

The Game Industry has so many issues trying to make a profit that I some times worry that most all people who do this type of work do it out of love and not profit (I am a retired Executive Business Manager for 25 years in the software business so I understand and always focused on profit/loss). Just consider for a moment how risky the business of investing in games actually is. Geoffrey Zatkin of Electronic Entertainment Design and Research is quoted in this article as saying:

"Only 20% of games that begin production will ever finish. Of those 20% that are finished and released to the market, only 20% of them will ever realize a significant profit... that equals 4% of games that start production return a significant profit."

Talk about long odds and I bet the odds for Flight Sims are even lower.

BTW, the BOBII approach to AI performance has players who do not agree. The following is a statement by a good BOBII player:

"The AI having acrobatic style evasive maneuver are great for testing your skills in quick combat flights, but in real combat there were relatively few extended dogfights. Most fights usually ended very quickly with the first burst, and the loser seldom seeing his counterpart."

I am sure that everyone has read these words many times. This may be the real way air combat was fought but I am not sure it was the case all the time. This approach for the AI would be very "boring" for a player, IMHO, but it would be easy to implement (fire, run and hide, then repeat). IMHO, a combat Flight Sim developer must always factor in the Player's "Fun Factor" so the air combat dog fights are enjoyable and fun.

nearmiss · #**123** 10-17-2011, 09:58 PM

LOL

The sim world is not the real world. You don't die in the game, and players want to enjoy all the air combat.

Even online you play different than you do offline. When you fly against good flyers in the air online you can get your head handed to you very quickly.

I would say online is closer to actual combat, but the element of gambling your life on a possible bad move doesn't mean anything. The most capable online players are careful not to waste their E and expose themselves anymore than possible. They want to get kills, and staying in the game is important.

Real world pilots flew and fought to stay alive, and reckless abandonment of caution wouldn't keep them alive for very long.

The AI performance makes the most difference to Offline players, and can make it or break it for a good air combat experience. So you want as competent AI as possible offline, especially since your wingman is a package of binary coding.

A competent AI is important with the COD, because there is no way to put large numbers of aircraft into the air in combat with human players. You could sit for hours waiting for enough players to join the server. AI performance is going to be very important to Online and Offline players in the COD, no way around it.

It's nothing like the IL2 with a small number of Online players pitted against each other. AI performance was ignored in the IL2, because there just was no capacity to put a large number of players into the fray at one time. Many of the players in those air combat situations will have to be AI players. AI performance cannot be ignored, it will have to be competently dealt with or all enthusiasm for the COD will be dead very shortly.

He111 · #**124** 10-18-2011, 02:19 AM

Well my fun factor as a SIMER, not a gamer, is for my sims to act real life .. the reason why I bought COD and not many other flight sim games. I love the detailed models, and especially the destruction models etc

If I'm closing in on a enemy’s 6, and he see me all the time ?? hmmm (when did single-seater fighters get an observer? defiant excluded) and starts barrel rolling continuous .. as if that doesn't affect the pilot then that's a detraction from the gam .. SIM! I expect to see my enemy spit / hurri do nothing (novice), banking hard left or right (average / veteran) or something new and surprising (ace)

As to games making money, there's nothing more certain to lose money than if you don't give gam ..simers what they want. The most successful games/sims are the ones that r bug free, easy to understand to operate, and have rich addictive tactical / strategic game play .. with the emphasis on addictive, players want to come back again and again .. for me, addictive means, quality - real-life sims - empire building (growth) - wargaming etc. Others would be different

Trooper117 · #**125** 10-18-2011, 08:24 AM

You are still playing a 'flight sim game'.. don't kid yourself.
There will never be any game that can be called 'full real', it's a catch phrase grown up men give to the genre to convince themselves they are not gaming, but are now 'simming'..

Get over it mate,
Being 'immersed' in your game is another matter, as for some, me included, you can suspend belief for a brief moment and get lost in it. (highly enjoyable)..
Lots of faults still to be put right, but as a grown up I can except what the devs are trying to do to rectify them, until then its a matter of playing the game as it stands, which is still pretty enjoyable regardless of the problems.

He111 · #**126** 10-18-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper117

You are still playing a 'flight sim game'.. don't kid yourself.
There will never be any game that can be called 'full real', it's a catch phrase grown up men give to the genre to convince themselves they are not gaming, but are now 'simming'..

Get over it mate,
Being 'immersed' in your game is another matter, as for some, me included, you can suspend belief for a brief moment and get lost in it. (highly enjoyable)..
Lots of faults still to be put right, but as a grown up I can except what the devs are trying to do to rectify them, until then its a matter of playing the game as it stands, which is still pretty enjoyable regardless of the problems.

Alot of people are gripping that Merlins don't sound like Merlins .. and Daimlers don't sound like Daimlers etc .. people want reality.

On a unrelated issue, here's a determined guy trying to takeoff! so determined .. and he nearly made it!

.

Trooper117 · #**127** 10-18-2011, 11:33 AM

Good pic!.. That is one aircraft many will want to see flyable.. hopefully in the future eh?
As to the sounds, well, don't think they will please everyone, but what we have is a vast improvement over the original ones.
Plus, as stated by the devs, the sound is still a work in progress and has a ways to go yet.
Don't get me wrong mate, there is a shed load of stuff to improve for sure.

smink1701 · #**128** 10-19-2011, 05:49 PM

Played a few SM's last night and I am so glad that FMs/AI is on the dev To Do list. At the present time it really makes the game unplayable in SP. Great to look at, fly around, take in the fly-by sounds, but engaging enemy planes and watching them flounder around like the pilot just had a seizure is a JOKE.

He111 · #**129** 10-20-2011, 04:36 AM

few more AI bugs ;

(1) When a plane is being attacked while landing, will try to barrel roll .. not advisable with flaps & gear down .. BOOM!

(2) Planes don't lower flaps when taking off, meaning they fly through trees etc to gain height.

Plus, why is the lights all on in this town (see picture) ?

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buddye · #**130** 10-20-2011, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by He111

few more AI bugs ;

(1) When a plane is being attacked while landing, will try to barrel roll .. not advisable with flaps & gear down .. BOOM!

(2) Planes don't lower flaps when taking off, meaning they fly through trees etc to gain height.

Plus, why is the lights all on in this town (see picture) ?

.

The problems with the AI, like doing a maneuver while takingoff or landing and the correct takeoff settings (flaps, throttle, etc.) should be rather easy to fix and test, IMHO.

The issues with selecting and performing the best combat maneuvers (both aggressive and defensive, vertical, dive, level) are the hardest if making human like maneuvers based on skill level is a top priority.