ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[SNAFU]

What keeps the Reds from B&Z the Blue? The plane with the E-advantage usually wins, even I-16 against 262.

[Ataros]

Someone mentioned Mr.X above. He posted a video from ATAG on sukhoi.ru

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSIj6...layer_embedded

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by ReconNZ

The 109 is on par with the IIa if flown well! Its only the poorer 109 pilots that cant match the IIa. They are just used to owning the Hurri and 1a in any kind of vertical engagement.

Oh look, more tripe..

I wont bother to copy the rest but a lil bit of advise...take what you got and learn to fly against the Blues instead of wanting a over modeled AC against an under modeled one

Thought this rubbish had stopped already

oh and P.S.. the vertical bit? Yep thats what happens when you got E advantage, try it in a Hurri against a 109

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Someone mentioned Mr.X above. He posted a video from ATAG on sukhoi.ru

What was the problem with him?

[SEE]

MrX logged into ATAG the other night. I didn't run into him during that session but he was bagging a lot of Red players at an impressive rate. I kept a watchfull eye on my six and wondered where his killing field was...now I know.

[trumps]

Don't understand what the issue is with MrX, looks like pretty much standard proceedure. Come in fast, get close hit hard and climb away. It works just as well when flying for the other side, get across the Chanel with some altitude and do the same thing! I think one of the biggest advantages the blues have is that they utilize coms better and we seem to fly in pairs or groups with a plan more often than the RAF flyers, the advantage of teamwork can not be understated.

Craig

Craig

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

Oh look, more tripe..

I wont bother to copy the rest but a lil bit of advise...take what you got and learn to fly against the Blues instead of wanting a over modeled AC against an under modeled one

Thought this rubbish had stopped already

oh and P.S.. the vertical bit? Yep thats what happens when you got E advantage, try it in a Hurri against a 109

Hey again lads. Re the quote above, well we would "take what we got" except "what we got" got taken away because all the blue pilots complained that they didnt have the advantage. I don't believe the IIa is overmodeled, but I understand that is debatable. What you can't debate is that the 109 is wildly superior to the Hurri and the Spit 1, both in speed and climb rate. So currently there is a major advantage to the Blues. Sure red can adopt tactics to try and level the field such as gaining altitude/teamwork etc - this will enable us to secure wins against rookie blue pilots, but against the better blue pilots you tend to get this:

-Blue boom and zoom over airfields.
-Red take off from distant field - fly around getting height for 10 mins, arrive on scene - bounce Blue 109's.
-109's dive for the deck and run for France, ascending slightly the whole way, or climbing and dropping, slowly pulling away from hurries/spits1's.
-Red turn back for coast, get bounced by another booming and zooming 109.
-Red cant run away. Red get shot down.

(oh and lets not forget the other advantage - Blue have significantly more chance of scoring a kill with a passing shot or a snap shot at the bottom of a boom/zoom because they have cannons)

Now I know there are some variations to this theme, and occasionally we get lucky and we can outfly blue from time to time if they decide to turn with us, but by and large the really good 109 drivers (cheeshawk havent flown with you but I'll include you in this), if they fly well will dominate red everytime by flying well and using good tactics.

So where does this leave us? The Spit1 is undermodeled (I think we all agree on this?) The 109's are currently severely advantaged and have (correctly) evolved tactics to make the most of this.

The best solution I see is to bring back the SPit II's in limited numbers as wat tried once before - maybe even make them fly from one of the fields further inland? Remember, blue will still have their cannons, and their tactics will still hold true, it will simply nullify their ability to fly around the airfields swooping on anything that takes off.

Oh and lets not forget the other thing - the flak is undermodeled too - last night Blue were happily flying around inside the flak zones without a care int he world. Does anyone think twice before flying into flak now?

As always, loving the debate - either way please dont get me wrong - love the game and have nothing but respect for the guys like Mogas and other great 109 drivers who own me in their 109's - I love the challenge and am more than confident these guys willbe more than able to hold their own against the SPit2. It's quite likely I will continue to fly the hurri as I love that bird, but I'd like others to be drawn into the server and not be scared off by the assaults on the airfields.

[klem]

Originally Posted by trumps

Don't understand what the issue is with MrX, looks like pretty much standard proceedure. Come in fast, get close hit hard and climb away. It works just as well when flying for the other side, get across the Chanel with some altitude and do the same thing! I think one of the biggest advantages the blues have is that they utilize coms better and we seem to fly in pairs or groups with a plan more often than the RAF flyers, the advantage of teamwork can not be understated.

Craig

Craig

Absolutely. So come on Reds, get onto TS3 especially if you're on the ATAG server. And be prepared to team up and work together and leave the egos at the door - until you meet a 109

[Sven]

Good fun on ATAG server this evening S~!

Too bad everyone stacked the blue team so I couldn't fly blue

... but Spits and Hurris will do for this one time

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Recon, you should look up comparisons on applicable types of aircraft. 109 should have a slight advantage in speed under 3km, and a better climb rate, even over the Spit IIa. When the IIa takes the 109's advantages, and adds its own superior turn rate, what you have is the equivalent of Independence Day alien warships in our WWII flight sim. While that may be appealing to some, there are better games out there for that... might I suggest Wings of Prey?

CheeseHawke - Im afraid I must disagree. Clearly we have a situation were the game has incorectly modeled the spit 1a, net result = a clear advantage to blue.

Your line: "109 should have a slight advantage in speed under 3km, and a better climb rate, even over the Spit IIa" is a dramatic understatement. Currently vs the hurri or Spit1, the advantages in this area are massive- not ""slight". And I think the 109's do still have a climb advantage against the IIa.

So I guess we have a stalemate - one side will get an advantage, so which one?

Well, Blue have cannons. Blue also have I think a better climb rate than the SPit II. And the Spit II is supposed to be the better plane.

So what I propose is to limit the number of Spit IIs as was trialled a few weeks back. Make it so blue can at least level the playing field. Saying that adding 4 or so spit 2's is equivalent to adding alien warships is a gross exageration mate. Adjust your tactics and I guarantee you can beat even the best pilots in a IIa. Blue have had it too easy for too long - remember, historically you are supposed to get beaten, it's not supposed to be the cakewalk for the 109's that it is now. The Spit2 should be superior.

Lets do a study - I believe the server now records stats is that right Bliss? Lets add 4 spit 2's into the server and see how many kills they get over the course of a week. MrX had 30 kills last time I saw him online - I never saw a spit 2 with anything like that when they were on the server.