The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by csThor

Bold part marked for truth.

As for BILD (or BLÖD = STUPID, as many people call it) ... it's Germany's foremost example of Yellow Press. Many people read it but denounce it as bad and claim not to read it. I don't read any newspaper (except when I visit my home village as my parents have subscribed to a local paper) and can proudly state I have never bought a BLÖD and never will. I am actually appalled by this type of media, regardles off its name, makeup and whether it's a print media, online or TV. They're all despicable IMO.

Unluckily, imho, we have a bit of a degeneration of all major newspaers into Bild style reporting. Stern, Spiegel, Focus, especially in regards to Greece went the opinionated emotional route. We can only hope this is not a long living trend.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Haha, while I agree with the sentiment, Goering's position during the Nuremburg trials is quite intellegent and rational. I was surprised thinking I would be reading frothing at the mouth, bombastic statements based off the impressions we've always been fed about the Nazi leaders. His quotes above are more true than what most politicians are willing to admit in public.

I wasn't disputing the man's evident 'charm', more the statement that he 'wasn't anti-semitic or dogmatic'.

Although I saw one documentary about his brother who apparently assisted thousands of Jewish people to flee.

[Kurfürst]

AFAIK Göring wasn't particularly anti semitic, he was pragmatic about not going the party line though.

IIRC there is a story about when Erhard Milch was being put under the magnifying glass for his - allaged - Jewish ancestry. Göring stepped in told Himmler along the lines that 'Dear Heinrich, it is I who decide who is jewish in the Luftwaffe and who is not'. As for dogmatic... I don't know, he strikes me as a rather pragmatic, and opportunistic character, rather than the fanatic nazis like Hess, Hitler or Himmler. Politics probably only interested him as long as it was practical. At least this is my take on him.

Personally, after the war I think many LW commanders simply pointed fingers to the 'fat man' and blamed their own failures on him, much like the infallible Wehrmacht generals did after the war when saying: '...it was all Hitler's fault'. I mean Galland especially. I like Galland a lot a man and a fighter pilot, but I am realistic about that he only tells his side of the story, and there were plenty of people who did not like his leadership, and whom Galland did not like either. But Galland got to wrote his memoir and others did not. IMHO he probably wasn't as good as a staff officer as he was a Gruppe or Geschwader commander. His failure in Italy and the naivity of his 'big blow' plan are striking examples imho, but he always had Fat Hermann as an excuse. IMHO Molders was classes better for that role.

In reality, Göring was interfering very little with the Luftwaffe during the war, he was more of a political connection to the nazi party, rather than a real actor; Milch was the actual man who was behind organisation and such, Göring did little more than preside over GL meetings.

[JimmyBlonde]

Originally Posted by kendo65

And presumably the 'facts' = what is taken to constitute 'objective reality' is to be determined by you with the rest of our opinions relegated to those of propaganda-besotted dupes.

You haven't addressed my criticism of this stance of yours - the so-called 'facts' that you keep marshalling in your arguments appear to most here as opinion and interpretation, of equal value as the perspectives of other posters but not inherently different in evidence or weight.

Once again your refusal to acknowledge this or reply with massive overwhelming evidence (that is not open to either counter-interpretation or that can be contradicted by other quotes, opinions or 'facts' from the other side) strikes me as a little arrogant.

Until you can deliver incontrovertible 'facts' and evidence and not just resort to constantly saying you are right you won't change opinions.

Sternjaeger wants to have his cake and eat it too, if you give him facts he says that they're misinterpreted. If you give him logically sound and well thought out interperatations he wants facts.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by JimmyBlonde

Sternjaeger wants to have his cake and eat it too, if you give him facts he says that they're misinterpreted. If you give him logically sound and well thought out interperatations he wants facts.

There is an old saying, 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink the water, even if it is the sweetest water'.

[Theshark888]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

It got me thinking some time ago: out of all the European countries, Great Britain is the only one with SO much celebration about WW2, and for a buff like me and you it surely is paradise, but have you ever wondered why it doesn't happen as much in the rest of Europe?

Maybe that's because GB was the only European country on the "good" side who fought from the beginning to end, without changing sides, and actually landed up on the winning side. Also, maybe you should look up some of the celebrations in Poland sometime!

Who else would celebrate their performance/actions during WW2; Germany? Italy? France? Belgium? Netherlands? Romania? Finland? Russia? Hungary? Austria? etc.

As for the importance of the BOB, compare the losses in the BOF to BOB...you will really get enlightened

[xnomad]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

Who else would celebrate their performance/actions during WW2; Germany? Italy? France? Belgium? Netherlands? Romania? Finland? Russia? Hungary? Austria? etc.

I reckon Russia, and they do don't they?

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

The last hurrah of an ancient empire. Given all they gave up to ensure capitalism, they have the right to celebrate.

No there's no sarcasm in that at all, Germany must be forgiven WWII, but Britain can never be forgiven for once being the worlds largest empire.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by xnomad

I reckon Russia, and they do don't they?

They very much do......it's just apparently less offensive than The way Brits celebrate.

Originally Posted by bongodriver

No there's no sarcasm in that at all, Germany must be forgiven WWII, but Britain can never be forgiven for once being the worlds largest empire.

There is a difference. Germans themselves (at least most of them) are aware that ww2 was a terrible thing and German guilt is recognized. Go to Berlin and look at the HUGE memorial in plain town centre to the memory of the dead of the Holocaust. A picture for you (On the top left corner you see the Reichstag-building):



Another perspective:


Where are your memorials on the dark spots in British history?

Remember: one can only be forgiven when one recognizes one's guilt.