The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[blackmme]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

mmmh, I think it was more the sound of your point bouncing over my explanation

Midway was a turning point and a victory because of the changes and short term consequences that came right after the clash.

There were NO changes whatsoever to the tactical situation or strength of the Luftwaffe, you just pushed them back as much as you could, and not fully anyway, since they dropped tons of bombs over Britain.

They didn't stop because your opposition crippled them, they stopped cos it was a half-hearted, badly conceived and worst executed plan, and suddenly Barbarossa was more important for obvious resources reasons (and it's not like they stopped bombing you straight away anyway). Either you fail to understand the German logic about it, or you're in denial.

Denial Lets not bring Egypt and the North African theatre into this!

So there was no change whatsoever in the tactical situation or strength of the Luftwaffe between july 1940 and October 1940!
My gosh Stern, there really is no point discussing with you is there on this subject? Everything you accuse the people you disagree with of you are exhibiting to a greater degree.

Regards Mike

[bongodriver]

There were NO changes whatsoever to the tactical situation or strength of the Luftwaffe

Appart from the complete change of tactics to the 'blitz' bombings, and the losses suffered in the BOB

They didn't stop because your opposition crippled them, they stopped cos it was a half-hearted, badly conceived and worst executed plan

But they did stop after 3 months of half hearted trying.

Either you fail to understand the German logic about it, or you're in denial.

does German logic override any other? sounds one sided to me, in denial of what exactly?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by blackmme

Denial Lets not bring Egypt and the North African theatre into this!

So there was no change whatsoever in the tactical situation or strength of the Luftwaffe between july 1940 and October 1940!

what do you think, that when one starts a war with a certain number of aircraft they think you won't have any losses?! Battle losses were taken into account even by their incompetent leaders, they probably didn't think they would have lost as many, but and the production numbers show that the Luftwaffe soon replenished the losses with the production of new planes.

Besides the evolution of aircraft was so fast that Emils would have been obsolescent by 1941, it was a costly, disposable force.

My gosh Stern, there really is no point discussing with you is there on this subject? Everything you accuse the people you disagree with of you are exhibiting to a greater degree.

Regards Mike

uhmm if you say so.. it doesn't make it right..
I don't accuse nobody, who's "the people"? I'm making a point, either you agree or disagree..

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Appart from the complete change of tactics to the 'blitz' bombings, and the losses suffered in the BOB

see my answer above: losses are always taken into account. The change of tactics doesn't mean they lost, they kept on dropping bombs or V1/2s over the UK.

But they did stop after 3 months of half hearted trying.

yes, it wasn't as fast and easy as they thought. They still kept on dropping bombs with a more efficient and less costly manner, and one harder to stop.

does German logic override any other? sounds one sided to me, in denial of what exactly?

no, but it's a different one. You keep on applying the same logic to different countries, it doesn't quite work like that, but then again, it's a typical empire mentality, nothing to be blamed for of course!

[bongodriver]

see my answer above: losses are always taken into account. The change of tactics doesn't mean they lost, they kept on dropping bombs or V1/2s over the UK.

yes, it wasn't as fast and easy as they thought. They still kept on dropping bombs with a more efficient and less costly manner, and one harder to stop.

Yeah...because when they tried a face to face fight they got a bloody nose, so they resorted to poking us with a long stick.

Oh losses are taken into account.....so they predicted the losses they'd suffer and were just fine with it....like an act of charity to make the Brits feel a little better about themselves?

no, but it's a different one. You keep on applying the same logic to different countries, it doesn't quite work like that, but then again, it's a typical empire mentality, nothing to be blamed for of course!

This just doesn't make sense....applying what logic to what countries?

Ah the empire mentality.......another little jab at the Brits....so the Germans never had designs on an 'empire' ?......come to think of it while the British were empire building I seem to recall they weren't alone in that race at all.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Yeah...because when they tried a face to face fight they got a bloody nose, so they resorted to poking us with a long stick.

you see? That's what I mean, how can you call that an unbiased assessment? But using your terms: I think the fight gave a bloody nose to both of them..

Oh losses are taken into account.....so they predicted the losses they'd suffer and were just fine with it....like an act of charity to make the Brits feel a little better about themselves?

yes, every armed forces does it, it's called damage assessment. No charities involved...

This just doesn't make sense....applying what logic to what countries?

your empire logic to other countries.

Ah the empire mentality.......another little jab at the Brits....so the Germans never had designs on an 'empire' ?......come to think of it while the British were empire building I seem to recall they weren't alone in that race at all.

man, you're really touchy are you? Why is that supposed to be a little jab or derogatory?!
The Germans were the main European empire, but nowadays they don't think in those terms anymore. Many in the UK still do it, probably thinking that the status of "Kingdom" means they still are an empire. Again, there's nothing wrong with the empire mentality, it's just a bit anachronistic.

[Bewolf]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...curity-history

....as if the author read this thread.

[bongodriver]

you see? That's what I mean, how can you call that an unbiased assessment? But using your terms: I think the fight gave a bloody nose to both of them..

The Brits got their nose bloodied in France, I just assumed that was the 'given', the BOB was where the Grmans got a taste and it didn't feel so good, they tried for 3 months with one tactic which failed and switched to another......that failed, no bias....that is what happened, any colurfull Nationalistic tones used in the description don't change those facts.

yes, every armed forces does it, it's called damage assessment. No charities involved...

Quite....and when the predictions are proving a bit 'off' it's time to change plans

your empire logic to other countries.

Still not making sense, please elaborate with a clear example of this.

man, you're really touchy are you? Why is that supposed to be a little jab or derogatory?!
The Germans were the main European empire, but nowadays they don't think in those terms anymore. Many in the UK still do it, probably thinking that the status of "Kingdom" means they still are an empire. Again, there's nothing wrong with the empire mentality, it's just a bit anachronistic.

Touchy?.....maybe, when you hear this kind of crap over and over it wears the patience somewhat, many in the UK is not everyone in the UK, The United Kingdom existed before the empire, the empire doesn't exist any more.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...curity-history

....as if the author read this thread.

Bewolf, you wanna become my spokesman?

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Bewolf, you wanna become my spokesman?

depends on the pay, hehe.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...curity-history

....as if the author read this thread.

it's the kind of drivel you expect from such a left wing newspaper, so the article fits into your 'generalisation' of the British, hi5's all around chaps.