The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

The Battle of Britain was about air superiority over the Channel. You didn't gain air superiority over the Channel area even after the Battle of Britain was over, did you? You had to wait for the Americans to show up in order to achieve that.

Nope, it was about air superiority over Southern England and the Channel in preparation for the threatened invasion. Britain certainly did achieve air superiority over Southern England, the Channel was kind of like the net in a tennis match.

And I wasn't there personally, not having been born until 22 years afterwards.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I'm sorry but that's wrong. It's now a fact that Germany can be considered the main culript of WW1. The Sarajevo killing was only a short term cause, look up for the Schliffen Plan, it was discovered only after the war by some brave German historians and it was the smoking gun, the evidence that the Germans had in mind a European continent invasion and they pushed themselves as much as thinking of a new order for African countries as well.

True to a point, but not giving the whole picture. The first country to start mobilisation was Russia. Everything else went on automatic from that point on.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/willynicky.htm

These letters between the Tsar and the Kaiser should be of particlular interest in this regard.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

haven't said that Germany shouldn't feel ashamed, they still do and pay for it (I had a German girlfriend in 2007, she was 27 and a part of the taxes she paid went on the reimbursement for the war..).

Your "couple of mistakes", as you called them, cost 600.000 civilian lives and 55.000 RAF airmen.

Didn't hear much mourning from the British side on this though.

Were still paying taxes for our cost in the war, at least germany has paid off it's debt (I heard a while back)

forgive us if we haven't made enough programmes that highlight the awfull nature of the 'firebombing' raids, and I guess at the time we were busy digging our own dead out of our own bombed cities....sorry.

Market Garden?....so it's ok for the Germans to use bad planning blah blah blah as an excuse for the 'defeat' in the BOB, and somehow we need to feel ashamed of our Paras for putting up a pretty damned good fight against overwhelming odds?

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

Well i have to correct my self, your British Army performed well against the Italians in the MTO, at least until Rommel showed up there.

Oh....and how did that go in the end?.......

[NedLynch]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Sometimes I just love Americans. Cheers Ned.

Wasn't it Paulus at Stalingrad?

You know, it seriously does hurt to see these guys fighting with each other here. You know where the expression "anglo-saxon" comes from and why England is named England?

As for the battle being a decisive victory for Britain, even just looking at the numbers confirms it, google it and find the losses for each side, but beyond that, the Luftwaffe did not acomplish it's set goal (not due to it's pilots), while the RAF did.

And for anyone who underestimates the fighting ability of british soldiers all I have to say, from everything I know, I would never ever want to meet british soldiers in combat. I've met british troops,combat troops, in peace, as an ally, and they are dead serious professionals who know exactely what they are doing.

[fruitbat]

this thread would of been much more interesting and polite without Kongo-otto.

guess he's just a kid.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Nope, it was about air superiority over Southern England and the Channel in preparation for the threatened invasion. Britain certainly did achieve air superiority over Southern England, the Channel was kind of like the net in a tennis match.

And I wasn't there personally, not having been born until 22 years afterwards.

You didn't gain air superiority over Southern England and the Channel after the Battle of Britain, you kept on receiving raids and German planes were still flying over your territory regularly until late 1941, air superiority over Great Britiain and Northern Europe was achieved only when the Americans got there.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

this thread would of been much more interesting and polite without Kongo-otto.

guess he's just a kid.

..says the one that called someone else a pr**k..

We should try and keep this conversation factual, with no national bias, but I understand it's not easy.

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Oh....and how did that go in the end?.......

The USA had to show up and help you.

[NedLynch]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I'm sorry but that's wrong. It's now a fact that Germany can be considered the main culript of WW1. The Sarajevo killing was only a short term cause, look up for the Schliffen Plan, it was discovered only after the war by some brave German historians and it was the smoking gun, the evidence that the Germans had in mind a European continent invasion and they pushed themselves as much as thinking of a new order for African countries as well.

The Schlieffen Plan was the German General Staff's early 20th century overall strategic plan for victory in a possible future war where it might find itself fighting on two fronts: France to the west and Russia to the east. The First World War later became such a war with both a Western Front and an Eastern Front. The plan took advantage of expected differences in the three countries' speed in preparing for war. In short, it was the German plan to avoid a two-front war by concentrating their troops in the west, quickly defeating the French and then, if necessary, rushing those troops by rail to the east to face the Russians before they had time to mobilize fully. The Schlieffen Plan was created by Count Alfred von Schlieffen and modified by Helmuth von Moltke the Younger after Schlieffen's retirement. It was Moltke who actually put the plan into action, despite initial reservations about it.[citation needed] In modified form, it was executed to near victory in the first month of World War I; however, the modifications to the original plan, a French counterattack on the outskirts of Paris (the Battle of the Marne), and surprisingly speedy Russian offensives, ended the German offensive and resulted in years of trench warfare. The plan has been the subject of intense debate among historians and military scholars ever since. Schlieffen's last words were "remember to keep the right flank strong".


Taken from wikipedea, not the all knowing source many claim it to be, but it gives you a good idea.