|
|
|
|
#1
01-06-2008, 12:36 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Show me in the EULA where UBI sanctioned skinning and mission building this is what I got out of the EULA. To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work, To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios. |
|
#2
01-06-2008, 01:08 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
LEXX:: Offliners in their vastly greater numbers paid for the sim's development.
Rama:: Quote:
As we were discussing, we had the chance to try and help the Offline base and the many Online players. And as poasted to Bearcat, that is where we failed. We shall review... 4 years ago... Quote:
Today... Quote:
Four years ago, we refused to even try to help others who paid for our sim's development, and we turned against them with hostility and contempt, and today we expect them to believe we have a "moral" message for them? We don't. We threw it away. Now we pretend to be "shocked" and "angry." |
|
#3
01-06-2008, 02:04 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Quote:
 That is rich man... yeah..... real rich... If it were really that simple this thread would be on page 2 by now. Yeah.. lets have that option to put a 25lb spit in a Mk5.. or better yet the FM of an La-7 on a Mustang.. so we can fix it... yeeeahhhhhhh that's the ticket.... let's fix 'em all....!!! and this little gem really takes the cake.... Quote:
Personally I bought 2 copies of IL2, 3 of FB, 3 of the FB GOLD pack... and 3 of 46... all which I gave away as gifts to promote the sim.... because it is IMO THAT GOOD.. While working at Best Buy for 2 years I sold EVERY SINGLE COPY of the GOLD pack that came in the store and several PF standalones as well... (Not to mentuion joysticks, RAM, video cards, sound cards.. all directly related to the sim... ) so by virtue of your logic.. does that mean that I have more of a say so in what goes on in here? I dont think so.... Your logic is NOT.. period.. It is a good thing that you are not an attorney because if you were you would be one poor sob my friend. Last edited by Bearcat; 01-06-2008 at 02:19 AM. |
|
#4
01-06-2008, 07:21 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
"To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work" is as I understand it is in reference to the programme itself, not any "work" created outside the programme. ie. Any artwork created by the user in Photoshop is not owned by Adobe, nor is it modifiying the programme. I would have thought that the scenarios that users have been building is allowed by UBI/1c as they are created solely from their very own supplied FMB. They even supply voids to assist the skinners. The fact that there has not been anything to the contrary for seven years sets precedent. I am sure "levels" and "scenarios" in the EULA is in reference to programme versions and revisions rather than game functions. The EULA that everyone agrees to before they load the software is to prevent the misuse of the software as it was intended. Skinning and mission building yes, decompiling code no. Last edited by BrassEm; 01-06-2008 at 07:49 AM. |
|
#5
01-06-2008, 11:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
The existance of the sound mod in no way coerces palyers to utilise it in unscrupulous ways. I can only assume, that as there is such concern about so called "cheating" in Online servers, that there is a lack of trust amongst the online community, that online players doubt the integrity of the people they play online with and that there is at least a small proportion of bad apples amongst that community who will take advantage of whatever means are available to give themselves an advantage. Far from having your own house in order you have extrapolated you unease at the behaviour of some of your online colleagues and used it to wage a campaign against people happily utilise community generated third party mods to enhance their own gameplay experience. Any issues with online cheating could quickly and easily be resolved by banning cheaters, stronger server administration and a move away from anonomous online play. That wouldn't require a constant stream of Online players repeating the same old boring arguments against community modification. It wouldn't require any programming effort to develop server side file verification and it wouldn't rely on a !C developed fix to the simulation. As for right and wrong...really, whats wrong with enjoying a simultor I have legitimately purchased (on a number of occasions) in the way I see fit... What strikes me as odd is that this is the only simulation of any kind Air, Naval, Racing etc where a proportion of the community has come out against third party and community development of the sim, beyond the point where the developer has stopped further support... |
|
#6
01-06-2008, 03:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
No this can't be solved easily by banning cheaters. Every honest onliner know this... ... please stop talking about what you don't know. Quote:
1) third party and community development of the sim has been intensive during the last 6 years... and very wellcome by all the community who praised all the patches and free addons in which this third party and community work was delivered. 2) No developper of any other game had got a continuous and constant support during 6 years. ALL OTHER have stopped long before. Nobody has forced M:1C to stop the support after 6 years, it is a plain normal and understandable decision in order to work on the following game. I can tell you that The distributor, Ubi, was absolutly not pleased to see M:1C continue the support of IL2 during 6 years and thus sacrifying valuable ressources for the developpment of the follow-on game they pay for.... From this, I'm sorry to tell you that what's striking you.... is just your ignorance and your wrong look of the situation. |
|
#7
01-06-2008, 04:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
No one is criticising Oleg for stopping support of the IL2 series at 4.09 and shifting to BOW-SOW.
I applaud Oleg and his business model...I think he has been savvy enough to continue to release patches through the long period between PF and BOB-SOW to maintain interest in his games when it might have died off... But it is natural now, as there is still continued interest in the game series from its user for the community and for third parties to continue development of the game outside of the aegis of official patches, expansions and mods... This is what has happened with every single other flight simulation in history... Why cannot Cheating be prevented by stronger server administration or stronger policing of the Online community? Surely if anyone caught cheating was perma IP banned, cheating would tail off pretty quickly...All it would take is the major servers exchanging usernames/IP addresses of people abusing the system on a weekly basis and bingo! Problem solved... |
|
#8
01-06-2008, 04:43 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
- IP adresses are floating (for most of users). Everybody "cheater" can change username and come back with another username and another IP.... so your usernames/IP addresses list would just be useless (or even worse...) - cheating isn't evident to prove. The only thing you can do (which is allready a constraint) is to record tracks.... but how will you prove on the track that one player is using a plane with a topspeed 50 Km/h higher (or even 100 Km/h higher) than normal one? You can have strong presumption, but hardly any real proof. That's just one exemple, but I could find many other. Then, with only strong presumption, what you gonna do? create an "online" tribunal, having a jury of player all watching the track and giving their "honest judgement"?... anything else and you'll be an "online dictator" and will be flamed on all the forums. - Even if you are able to built an heavy organisation of peoples whatching all tracks of all online contesters and taking care of all conflicts, this is going to maybe work for single dogfight servers.... but not for online wars with thousands of participants.... no online war dev will ever accept to built such an heavy machine (you would probably need dozens of peoples just to take care of this) - And even with all these heavy mechanisms.... there will be still cheating (it will just refrain cheaters to use obvious big changes... but they will be able to use multiple small changes to have an advantage, which isn't a big deal in itself... but is enough to kill the fun and discourage the honest online player. All of thess would be obvious to you if you have the slightest knowing of the online world. |
|
#9
01-06-2008, 04:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wow!!! You're right...I obviously have less understanding of the Online world than I thought...There sure are a lot of sharks out there in the pool if its that much of a problem to enforce...
I guess ive been lucky not to have played IL2 online then...I'd hate to hang out with such a bunch of jerks... You seem like a pretty reasonable and intelligent guy...why do you put up with it? |
|
#10
01-06-2008, 04:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Second:Every modded Flight-Sim is quite dead online. Third: to ban anybody you have to prove that he or she is cheating, quite impossible if the cheating is not as blatant as a lerche in a 41 planeset. Fourth: of course it is quite easy to put the workload from this problem on the people who spend their free time and their money to host a server, but that can´t be called a solution. maybe the people who are winning by improving their gameplay (aka modder) should do something for the people who are loosing by that "improvements" (aka full-real-onliner). i.e. a crt=3 or crt=4 or better a software that guarantees that everybody on a server has to have the same mods. If i had any idea how to realize something like that i would start programming right now to save "my game".
__________________
Win 7/64 Ult.; Phenom II X6 1100T; ASUS Crosshair IV; 16 GB DDR3/1600 Corsair; ASUS EAH6950/2GB; Logitech G940 & the usual suspects  Last edited by robtek; 01-06-2008 at 04:53 PM. Reason: typo |
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
