AI is on top of my list

[adonys]

I wasn't saying about them giving the code away, but just provide an AI SDK or a script mechanism similar with the one for missions in order to overwrite AI functions.

[nearmiss]

I'm going to sticky this thread for a few days. Give it some time for response from other members that are very interested in this topic.

[Les]

Interesting insights Buddye, thanks for that.

It looks to me, as someone who has no idea of how these things really work, that you have a set of potential manouvres that are triggered by where the planes are in relation to each other and what their individual state is (damage, speed, skill level etc.) With variations in how well the manouvres are carried out also based on the planes individual state, but with some randomness thrown in as well.

In laymans terms, that would mean the more of those manouvre routines you have, and the more often the game re-calculates which routine is required under the changing circumstances, the better.

What a nightmare lol

And by that I mean, where do you set the point at which the game still remains playable and all your computing power doesn't get chewed up by calculating what the AI should do?

It's always got to be a compromise.

But even so, it's hard to accept that some of the behaviour we see in Cliffs Of Dover is the unavoidable result of making compromises to work within those fundamental computational limits.

It could be done better, right? There are ways to make the AI conform to at least a basic set of player expectations aren't there? And if those expectations were conveyed to the developers they wouldn't be too difficult to meet, would they? Just asking for your opinion based on your understanding of what's involved and what you've seen of Cliffs Of Dover in it's current state. I know you've already said the AI could be worked on endlessly and that the developers couldn't afford to do that, just wondering how far you think they might be able to get.

[Jabo2009]

Originally Posted by smink1701

Now that the look and sounds of Cliffs are just about there the next fix on the top of my list is AI. I'm a SP guy and was chasing a Hurricane last night and it was shaking, flopping around and it just takes you right out of the game. With IL2 1946 the AI might have been dumbed down and unrealistic in many ways but at least the AI flying was fluid and looked real like someone coud be flying the plane. This just looks silly. Hope AI is near the top of the developers list as well.

PS Love the game

+1

[Mattius]

Originally Posted by Bloblast

Not top but 2nd.

My current wishlist is:
1-communication
2-AI
3-dynamic campaign

Definately my top 3 as well. Better FPS would be #4!

[Space Communist]

Originally Posted by SNAFU

In the new system you cannot strictly draw a line between SP and MP and the AI, because the AI is getting more a part of MP, compared to 1946 (without mods).

Therefore I would love to see better AI, but what is better AI worth, if the netcode cannot support more than 15 AI planes in a coop mission, otherwise the planes warp, lag or are not drawn at all (see ghost/phantom planes)? Seeing improvement of the AI as long term project, I would first focus on the obvious problems and bugs:

FM (performance of the existing planes before introducing new ones f.e. service ceiling ) -> SP&MP
Network (get rid of the ghost dots and warp-fest of AI) -> MP
LOD (dots visibilty) -> SP&MP
AI -> SP&MP

Exactly. MP is never going to be great without good AI in the mix. particularly for me, since I only like co-op with friends.

[baronWastelan]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I'm going to sticky this thread for a few days. Give it some time for response from other members that a very interested in this topic.

GREAT idea thanks!

[buddye]

Originally Posted by Les

It looks to me, as someone who has no idea of how these things really work, that you have a set of potential manouvres that are triggered by where the planes are in relation to each other and what their individual state is (damage, speed, skill level etc.) With variations in how well the manouvres are carried out also based on the planes individual state, but with some randomness thrown in as well.

I think you understand the Overview of BOBII AI performance and design.

Originally Posted by Les

In laymans terms, that would mean the more of those manouvre routines you have, and the more often the game re-calculates which routine is required under the changing circumstances, the better.

What a nightmare lol

Actually, the processor requirements for the AI are very low as compaired to GFX, weather , water, and landscape which run every 40 MS or faster. Remember, it takes seconds to complete a maneuver (range of 3 to 15 seconds on average but some maneuvers take longer (some of the aggressive maneuvers). As an example, a break low maneuver takes 7 seconds. Seconds are easy for a modern PC.

Originally Posted by Les

It could be done better, right? There are ways to make the AI conform to at least a basic set of player expectations aren't there? And if those expectations were conveyed to the developers they wouldn't be too difficult to meet, would they? Just asking for your opinion based on your understanding of what's involved and what you've seen of Cliffs Of Dover in it's current state. I know you've already said the AI could be worked on endlessly and that the developers couldn't afford to do that, just wondering how far you think they might be able to get.

The COD developers are good. They can fix anything they want. Yes, they can make significant improvements to the COD AI. Right now I think it is a question of priority as they have a very long work list with higher priorities. My hope and I think some of you agree is that the Developers will agree and give higher priority to the AI performance.

[jimbop]

How difficult might it be to remove the flaws which make it obvious that the plane is flown by AI? E.g. the dithering you see when they can't decide which way to break.

It seems to me that there are two levels of AI improvement for CoD: the first would be to remove these aspects which really break immersion because you instantly realise that the plane is AI-flown. The second would be to turn an AI plane into a tactically strong opponent.

I hope we get some dev involvement in this thread in particular. I think CoD is heading in the right direction, especially after the last patch, but there seems to be a lot of community expertise that could be tapped. Thanks for sharing the document, buddye.

[dflion]

Originally Posted by CrazySchmidt

I have been reading this thread over the last couple of days at work, along with some other threads about the new beta patch and thinking to myself, it seems like it might be time to have another crack at this (after having shelved it for a couple months).

Tonight I got to have a crack at the new beta patch for the first time and while I can agree there is considerable improvement in over all graphics and sound I still couldn't find the hook I was hoping for (maybe too much forum hype, who knows). 109 sounds although, pretty much hit the bull's-eye! Nice work fellas!

smink1701's original post sums it up for me almost perfectly as I see it. The AI with CoD has always seemed absolutely mad to me and one of the great put offs, I mean absolutely spastic manoeuvres that make a chase an absolute joke. 109's with a roll rate that would shame the best 190 pilot, not only in passive flight, but also in steep dives to the point that I thought they were going in without hope only to find them pull up at the last minute and return to the fight LMFAO!!

I also read that some forum members believe that development focus does/should favour online play, well, from what I have read over the years to date, statistically off line play makes up the greater number of paying punters. I'm a 100% offline player as is everyone else I know that plays PC games. AI performance is not a trivial issue with gaming development, just ask the developers how important it is.

This is certainly a very significant patch for CoD, but after all it was either that or shut the doors and call in the cleaners right?

Well, for me it's off the shelf and now sitting on the desktop waiting for the next patch.

I have faith now at least it will get there eventually.

Cheers, CrazySchmidt.

Thanks 'CrazyScmidt' I could not have said it better myself. I am just puting the finishing touches to a Ju88 'offline' campaign for the 'bomber boys' ( which will be posted shortly).
I have spent hours and hours historically researching this campaign and thats what 'offline' campaigns are all about - fully historical or semi-historical campaigns that really put you in the 'drivers seat' re-creating what our forefathers (on both sides) actually did! For me personally, the immersion is far better than an 'Online Campaign', although I do enjoy battling with my sons on 'Online campaigns' occasionally.

This flight sim has put the air war during WWII firmly on the map (around the world). Ilya and his team will eventually fix the AI situation (I really can't understand why they haven't followed the programming in IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 which got it fairly right! Hello Ilya?)

This is what Oleg really created in IL-2 Sturmovik, an awareness about what really happened in the air war during WWII. He will always be remembered for this (I hope you are still out there Oleg?)

Finally, the more and more I immerse myself in creating my 'Offline' campaigns in COD, the more and more I really like what the team has tryed to create - eventually (with the help of lots of very intelligent members input) this flight sim will be the leading flight sim. Ilya will then develop a 'Korean War' flight sim then onto 'Vietnam', my personal era.

DFLion
P.S. I was very sad to hear about the crash of the Yak42 with a Russian Ice Hockey team aboard. I was very glad to hear that the Russian President will be looking very closely at Russian Aviation following this crash. The 'Ruski's' have some of the best aircraft designers in the world, they just have to get their act together with Civil Aviation in Russia!

DFLion