IL2 and Sound Modding

[DerAlte]

I bet alot of you have flown on server's with other players who use the Mod and you did not know it. That is a fact. Unless you fly on a closed password protected server. All this mod does is improve (IMO) some aspects of the game. I understand Billfish's example about mirror's (historical correct), clean gunsights (historical correct), clean canopy's (show me one pilot that would fly with a dirty canopy!) and the like. In her opinion, that is a "cheat". I like alot of others say that the track IR option is a "built in" cheat. A "cheat" is using something for a unfair advantage. For me that is a track IR. If everyone had it, it would not be a "unfair advantage". There IS a difference between using one and not on a closed pit server. Ask anyone who upgraded to one. But that is the opinion of a few. I know, I know, Bearcat.....apples and oranges!

I just got a new joystick for X-mas, a simple Saitek EVO (tm), and it is 1000% better than my 7 year old Sidewinder (tm). I have been getting more kill's now online than before. Flying much smoother (and I am a terrible fighter pilot), that some who have flown with me before are screaming "CHEATER, YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PILOT, YOU SHOT ME DOWN, YOU MUST BE CHEATING !!!!" Untill I tell them I finally got off my lazy butt and got a new stick. Then it is "OK, I GOT A NEW ONE TOO.....LOL". Is that a "unfair advantage" ? Matter of opinion, I say.

"Cheating", unless it is clearly proven, by definition, can be just a matter of opinion. What I see is, servers that embrace the Mod openly, are well populated. Some servers who "Damn" the mod (not all,the WW arcade ones are always full), are usely sparce populated. It is just like the so-called "Full Real" servers. Tons of them on Hypnolobby, but rarely visited.

There maybe no clear answer to the self-made schizm now. Both sides are "RIGHT" in their minds. I think ther servers should state from the beginning, MOD or NON-MOD. This BS, "if you use the Mod on our server we will ban you and tell everyone" is for the birds. Tell them simply to please leave, and please STATE IT BEFORE SO THE PEOPLE KNOW !!!!!


DerAlte

[SG2_Wasy]

Originally Posted by crazyivan1970

Come on folks, CRT never worked properly... forget CRT.. something new and much more simple needed. If Olegs crew will not find time to patch this hole (They already done more then enough to extend life of the series far and beyond), will have to look inside the community for people that are capable for creating file checker. I actually have few people in mind that might be capable of doing this... will just wait till final release and take it from there. Stop fighting already, nothing will change... tools is out there, people are getting a hang of it and no argument on this forum will change it. Concentrate on solution, because we already have a problem that has gone lose. No?

Yes, may be it solution. But among you, i see only guys who want much speak and don't want make something. You flooding already 96 page (i hope it will be 100 before New Year are coming) and what? only flood, flood and flood again. No one don't try make something.

[Rama]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

It is just like the so-called "Full Real" servers. Tons of them on Hypnolobby, but rarely visited.

You really don't know much about online play.
Between 25% and 30% of Hypperlobby attendance plays AW (Airforce War, an online coop war, nothing to do with dogfights servers), which is "Full Switch". When AW is up, I can easilly count around 200/300 players playing it.
And the good "Full Switch" dogfight servers like "Spit vs 109","Zeke vs Wildcats", and some others have a good success.

Other than that, +1 with crazyivan.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

I bet alot of you have flown on server's with other players who use the Mod and you did not know it.

This is the very core of the problem and why those of us who fly online are so upset. It is not the obvious 600mph P11 I'm worried about. It's plane x with say 25mph more speed at mid altitudes, and say 200kg less weight, something that would never be obviously seen, that is the real problem.

Although I am still troubled by the fact that some people I once thought of as honorable have shown themselves not to be so, but that has no effect on the game itself.

I hope that Oleg, or one of us can come up with a way to keep online secure for one more year till SOW comes on to the scene. After that '46 will be gathering dust on my hard drive.

[HanzBlixz]

Originally Posted by crazyivan1970

Come on folks, CRT never worked properly... forget CRT.. something new and much more simple needed. If Olegs crew will not find time to patch this hole (They already done more then enough to extend life of the series far and beyond), will have to look inside the community for people that are capable for creating file checker. I actually have few people in mind that might be capable of doing this... will just wait till final release and take it from there. Stop fighting already, nothing will change... tools is out there, people are getting a hang of it and no argument on this forum will change it. Concentrate on solution, because we already have a problem that has gone lose. No?

We’ve come full circle. In 2003 a program was written for CFS2 by HA_13 (aka Ziggy) called Fairskies. Its purpose was to keep mods and cheaters out of servers that wanted a clean, fair (original files only) dogfight.

I collected information from many players and provided feedback to Ziggy on how many of the cheats where done. As the different versions of Fairskies came out I would show Ziggy the remaining holes that needed to be plugged. This was after the first Gulf War and jokingly people were calling me “Hans Blix the weapons inspector for CFS2” (The real Hans Blix was the UN weapons inspector trying to find WMD in Iraq). As a result and joke my callsign was changed to HanzBlixz.

At first Fairskies put a huge dent in the cheating that was going on in servers that required Fairskies. Flyers who were dumb enough to join a server and try their FM mods to see of they could get away with it were caught. Many of the cheaters stopped joining the servers that they played on in fear of being caught. Flyers that were dominating dogfights suddenly went from heros to zeros and started flying bombers in no shooting allowed games. Even more changed their callsigns or haven’t been seen since.

Some eventually found ways to beat Fairskies and started sharing the hacks with friends. Many of us were also flying IL2 at the time. When we showed Ziggy all the ways that Fairskies was being beat and how IL2 was different, a decision was made to stop further work on Fairskies and move on to IL2. Fairskies did stop some cheating in CFS2, but as a side affect also launched a mass exodus of flyers from CFS2 to IL2.

Ziggy didn’t have an easy task at trying to develop Fairskies in a flight sim that was so open. I remember him saying that MS would not help him in anyway, or answer any questions and that was a real hurdle for him.

If 409m server does not end up with a better anti-hack check then looking further into crazyivans suggestion may make sense. This depends on several things, including how far off Bob is from actually being released. Working with 1C or at least getting some answers to questions will be much easier than trying to get info out of MS and IL2 is already far more secure then CFS2 was.

If some of you do decide to write the a 3rd party protection program, have a place were everyone can report specifics and holes on how people can cheat. NOT in an open forum or to be shared with the public. Maybe with a specific contact at 1C, a dedicated 1C email address or something? The person or team that attempts to develop the anti cheat program can then review and compare the reports to see if they covered all the holes.

I have several friends that are members of the mod community that want to improve the sim and not abuse it. Some info and tracks I posted in this forum came from AAA members (and a former member) who don’t like the path that some of the modders are heading down. So, get the modders involved like Josse, MrJolly, Wasy and others to help with at least giving input. They have all declared how they are against using mods to cheat and they are aware that their mods are being abused to do just that. I think if you give them a chance they will help.

Happy New Year to all.

[crazyivan1970]

When it comes to it HB, i am sure we will need to involve as many capable people as we can.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by HanzBlixz

We’ve come full circle. In 2003 a program was written for CFS2 by HA_13 (aka Ziggy) called Fairskies. Its purpose was to keep mods and cheaters out of servers that wanted a clean, fair (original files only) dogfight.

I collected information from many players and provided feedback to Ziggy on how many of the cheats where done. As the different versions of Fairskies came out I would show Ziggy the remaining holes that needed to be plugged. This was after the first Gulf War and jokingly people were calling me “Hans Blix the weapons inspector for CFS2” (The real Hans Blix was the UN weapons inspector trying to find WMD in Iraq). As a result and joke my callsign was changed to HanzBlixz.

At first Fairskies put a huge dent in the cheating that was going on in servers that required Fairskies. Flyers who were dumb enough to join a server and try their FM mods to see of they could get away with it were caught. Many of the cheaters stopped joining the servers that they played on in fear of being caught. Flyers that were dominating dogfights suddenly went from heros to zeros and started flying bombers in no shooting allowed games. Even more changed their callsigns or haven’t been seen since.

Some eventually found ways to beat Fairskies and started sharing the hacks with friends. Many of us were also flying IL2 at the time. When we showed Ziggy all the ways that Fairskies was being beat and how IL2 was different, a decision was made to stop further work on Fairskies and move on to IL2. Fairskies did stop some cheating in CFS2, but as a side affect also launched a mass exodus of flyers from CFS2 to IL2.

Ziggy didn’t have an easy task at trying to develop Fairskies in a flight sim that was so open. I remember him saying that MS would not help him in anyway, or answer any questions and that was a real hurdle for him.

If 409m server does not end up with a better anti-hack check then looking further into crazyivans suggestion may make sense. This depends on several things, including how far off Bob is from actually being released. Working with 1C or at least getting some answers to questions will be much easier than trying to get info out of MS and IL2 is already far more secure then CFS2 was.

If some of you do decide to write the a 3rd party protection program, have a place were everyone can report specifics and holes on how people can cheat. NOT in an open forum or to be shared with the public. Maybe with a specific contact at 1C, a dedicated 1C email address or something? The person or team that attempts to develop the anti cheat program can then review and compare the reports to see if they covered all the holes.

I have several friends that are members of the mod community that want to improve the sim and not abuse it. Some info and tracks I posted in this forum came from AAA members (and a former member) who don’t like the path that some of the modders are heading down. So, get the modders involved like Josse, MrJolly, Wasy and others to help with at least giving input. They have all declared how they are against using mods to cheat and they are aware that their mods are being abused to do just that. I think if you give them a chance they will help.

Happy New Year to all.

Best thing iv heard so far.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by crazyivan1970

Come on folks, CRT never worked properly... forget CRT.. something new and much more simple needed. If Olegs crew will not find time to patch this hole (They already done more then enough to extend life of the series far and beyond), will have to look inside the community for people that are capable for creating file checker. I actually have few people in mind that might be capable of doing this... will just wait till final release and take it from there. Stop fighting already, nothing will change... tools is out there, people are getting a hang of it and no argument on this forum will change it. Concentrate on solution, because we already have a problem that has gone lose. No?

""

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by Rama

You really don't know much about online play.
Between 25% and 30% of Hypperlobby attendance plays AW (Airforce War, an online coop war, nothing to do with dogfights servers), which is "Full Switch". When AW is up, I can easilly count around 200/300 players playing it.
And the good "Full Switch" dogfight servers like "Spit vs 109","Zeke vs Wildcats", and some others have a good success.

Other than that, +1 with crazyivan.

Sorry to burst your bubble,but I fly almost every night for at least 1 hour online. I have yet to fly AW, but might give it a try. And Spit V 109 is one of the reasons I stay from such servers (not because of the so-called full real), I like a change a pace with the planeset, and servers with stats always draw in the (it's all about me)point hoes. I have no time for that crap. Just really look at the "Full Real" servers, and see how many are empty. Because 2 or 3 are full, that is not the world.

DerAlte

[Rama]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Just really look at the "Full Real" servers, and see how many are empty. Because 2 or 3 are full, that is not the world.

And having many "full switch" server empty doesn't mean "almost nobody plays full real" as you try to show.
Just take a a paper and a pencil, and make some easy math: what I can see almost each night is around 300 players playing AW + around 100 playing "full switch" DF, thats 400 on around 900, so between 40% and 50% of the hyperlobby players.
40% is what you call "sparce". I think we don't have the same definition for words.