Bf-110 Dive Behavior

[JG52Karaya]

Originally Posted by Zorin

Maximum permissible speed was 650km/h as stated by the official flight manual, which of course includes dive situations.

That is the maximum safe diving limit, which normally has more or less of a threshold to it, doesnt mean that if you go 651km/h your aircraft would vapourize as in IL-2/CoD. I think we can safely assume another 50km/h on top of that speed before any critical structural damage would occur.

And while on topic: If we go by maximum safe diving speeds then all aircraft in IL-2/CoD are overmodelled

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by JG52Karaya

That is the maximum safe diving limit, which normally has more or less of a threshold to it, doesnt mean that if you go 651km/h your aircraft would vapourize as in IL-2/CoD. I think we can safely assume another 50km/h on top of that speed before any critical structural damage would occur.

And while on topic: If we go by maximum safe diving speeds then all aircraft in IL-2/CoD are overmodelled

Actually your VNE (Velocity Never Exceed) rely also on the air condition like outside pressure or turbulences. The more you get the less your VNE will be.

Have a look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jklVp4Rcdc8

and switch to 7min. It explains how to dive a P47. Look how VNE decrease with alt.

[Redroach]

okay okay, you're all very wise and informed and such, but the thing is: The Bf110 starts shaking badly when exceeding 500kph...

[JG52Karaya]

Originally Posted by Redroach

okay okay, you're all very wise and informed and such, but the thing is: The Bf110 starts shaking badly when exceeding 500kph...

Which is due to the aircraft's max. dive speed being set too low (600km/h right now) and the sim engine starts this effect about 100km/h before the actual break up speed.

I think we already agreed that it is too low, so...?

[robtek]

No shaking should occur before vne!!

Vne is when the plane is becoming uncontrollable and/or starts loosing structural integrity.

Afaik vne for the earlier P-38 models, i. e., where when they lost elevator authority, not structural integrity, and varied with the altitude.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by robtek

No shaking should occur before vne!!

Vne is when the plane is becoming uncontrollable and/or starts loosing structural integrity.

Afaik vne for the earlier P-38 models, i. e., where when they lost elevator authority, not structural integrity, and varied with the altitude.

VNE is the "never exceed speed" an indicative airspeed value which in theory is set a bit before the speed when the first signs of flutter would occur, but some constructors set it at the first signs of flutter. Reaching the VNE is easier when diving, because the increase of air density with the diving attitude have a surprising airspeed acceleration effect. You can have flutter before reaching VNE, it depends on many factors but it was a common occurrence, and it's flutter that triggers the loss of structural integrity.

The ingame 110 behaviour is correct, it's the speed at which flutter triggers that is wrong.

[robtek]

Thats what i said, The Vne for the 110c is 650 km/h IAS, so when i fly in a shallow dive the flutter should start around 650 km/h on the "Fahrtmesser".
That might differ in a steep dive, there, as the indicator might lag behind, the flutter could start before 650 km/h are indicated.

[Sternjaeger II]

mind you, reaching the VNE doesn't necessarily mean that there would be flutter effects. You might have loss of control authority before (as you mentioned in the P-38 ).