What a tracer should look like (before spazzing just look).

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by winny

A Laser beam is physical, tracer streak is not, it's an effect. You cannot compare. As you already said, tracer rounds are dots not beams of light. Different.

You need to take the basic science class not me. If the tracer left a trail of smoke that would be straight no matter what becuse it actually exists. Tracer streak can only exist when it's being viewed. It's not 'there' all the time. It's a dot, or is it a circle or is it 2 circles on top of each other?

You are all over the place. Trajectory is an objects path in a 3d space and we're not dealing in 3d.

Have you ever seen the wobbly pencil trick where you take a real pencil and move it up and down in such a way that it appears to bend? It must be real magic to you...

Holy fricken cow. I'm talking to a 5 year old. I was trying to give you a way to see the effect that you are soo sure happens without actually using a machine gun. So the only thing I can suggest now is to pay someone in the military to set up a range so you can sit there and watch an automatic weapon with tracer rounds fire down range. That way you could run back and forth, jump up and down, clap your hands together and maybe, just maybe as you are spinning 360's and jumping up and down while watching real life ammunition go down range with your own real life eye balls, then you could finally see for your self they move fricken straight.

And for the 100000000000000X, the ONLY reason the pencil "trick" fools your eyeballs is when you are FOCUSING on said pencil. You DO NOT FRICKEN FOCUS ON AN INDIVIDUAL TRACER ROUND WHILE FIRING A WEAPON.

What a complete and utter retard.

[winny]

No I'm 37.

Retard?

What are you focusing on in CoD? Everything, infinite focal length.

Anyway, here's a diagram. It shows the fight path of 1 bullet between 2 points in time, 1 and 2.

The bullet (Black dot) is fired at X as the aircraft is moving to the left. I have then marked it at several points through it's flight. Not to scale but it works whatever the sideways movement.

At all points the bullet stays straight, aligned to the original target (red lines to the X)

Because its a single point of light we can track where the bullet must have been relative to the viewer. It cannot jump, it must take a continuous path.

This is the purple line, the actual relative path across the eye. It is where the light went. CoD draws tracers aligned to the straight red line (line of flight) when the true path of the point of light across the image is the purple line. The light streak can only exist within this line.

Please let me know, with all of your experience and physics knowledge what part of this is wrong?

[ATAG_Bliss]

I've already told you enough times that I've lost count, but here goes again: When you move your airplane after you've fired in this sim, the tracers change from your focal point and depending on where you are viewing them they can appear as a dot, a long streak of light, or any variation in between. And for the upteen time, depending on the G's you are pulling while firing you can actually see this light bend.

The diagram you drew out is exactly what happens in the game. The problem that you still yet don't seem to understand is by the time you've changed position to view them differently or to have them change the viewing angle, they are already long gone, such as real life. That's why your attempt at some sort of photoshop masterpiece is a joke. You again are assuming you are looking at point 1 to point 2 when in reality when firing a weapon you are looking at point 3, the actual target.

And I've already let you know in virtually every single post what is wrong with not only your way of thinking, your way of using a weapon, and the way they look. No amount of pictures you produced will change that. And no amount of arm chair experience will ever change that. You are flat out wrong. Thanks again for the confirmation with each and every one of your posts.

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

There is no "equivalent" to shutterspeed or anything like your train of thought there, yellonet, for the human eye. The human eye does not have a shutter.
All that lovely flowing milk, etc, you see in tv adverts, is usually shot at up around 300 ~ 500 frames/ second and sync'd.
Light doesn't bend, except supposedly under extreme magnetic influence... you're confusing afterimage in relation to the eye and the round's velocity... as for the human eye can following the round, I have seen Samurai slice an oncoming bullet in half with a katana but that is in an exceptional circumstance after dedicated training.

Ugh, I don't know why I have to say this as I thought it was quite evident that I just used the "shutter speed" as a metaphor to explain how quick changes the eye/brain can register.
Of course the eye has no shutter.
But regarding this discussion, watching a tracer filmed with a shutterspeed of 1/60 should look similar to what one would see in person.

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

the tracer streak doesn't bend, twist, distort or anything, yellonet... the stream does, but not the individual streaks

It does bend. How would the "stream" bend but not the individual streaks?
That could only happen if the streaks where physical rigid objects sticking out of the bullet. Which the streaks are not.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

And for the upteen time, depending on the G's you are pulling while firing you can actually see this light bend.

Are you sh***ng me? ALL I HAVE EVER SAID IS THAT A TRACERS STREAK CAN CURVE!

Why are you arguing with me? You're the one who said the stay straight, not me.

MOuhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaa !

You know that this subject has been debated since last year ?
And initially, and actually the ONLY Luthier's response about tracers in COD was : those COD's tracers are PERFECT and there is nothing wrong with them so we wont change a thing about them....
If anyone can show at least 1 guncam or video or whatever that comes even close to what we see in COD's , then I will be convinced....Until then...
You guys are very funny insulting each other about physics, anatomy of the eye, and laser beams, but in the end, it only takes a good programmer to give us something that would give the impression of what actual tracers would look like from a pilot point of view....Something that would satisfy both RL observers AND
those who only saw ww2 guncams....Cause right now, neither side is happy !

Salute !

[winny]

Originally Posted by kalimba

MOuhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaa !

You know that this subject has been debated since last year ?
And initially, and actually the ONLY Luthier's response about tracers in COD was : those COD's tracers are PERFECT and there is nothing wrong with them so we wont change a thing about them....
If anyone can show at least 1 guncam or video or whatever that comes even close to what we see in COD's , then I will be convinced....Until then...
You guys are very funny insulting each other about physics, anatomy of the eye, and laser beams, but in the end, it only takes a good programmer to give us something that would give the impression of what actual tracers would look like from a pilot point of view....Something that would satisfy both RL observers AND
those who only saw ww2 guncams....Cause right now, neither side is happy !

Salute !

You've just reminded me..

Illya also said somewhere (it could have been Oleg, I haven't looked for it) that they initially tried to model them as tracked points of light. The problem they ran into was frame rates.

The lower the frame rate the longer the streak appeared and even at 30 fps the streak was way too long, they had to make a compromise.

That compromise was I think probably, to make the trails, to all intents and purposes, physical objects.

All I was suggesting was that maybe the developers could think about programing tracer streaks relative to motion across the screen, ie. Think in 2D and just paint them in behind, length realtive to speed. Do away with the physical 'bars'.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by winny

Are you sh***ng me? ALL I HAVE EVER SAID IS THAT A TRACERS STREAK CAN CURVE!

Why are you arguing with me? You're the one who said the stay straight, not me.

And this proves exactly what I've been saying all along. You don't listen to a word you've been told. Why don't you go ahead and try reading what I wrote about 10 times now where I've been stating all along that the line can and will bend ONLY if for example, you are pulling extreme G's, your body got moved in such an extreme force (aka me saying if you were hit by a freight train) etc. etc..

Before you backpeddle any further, I suggest you actually read what has been written next time. I would have thought saying the same thing 20 times now would have sank in to most people without an infant mentality. Congrats.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by yellonet

Bullets only rise because the barrel is pointing up, and there's no set distance for when the bullet drops below the aim point, that's up to bullet speed and how high you aim. They don't curve, but the sidewards motion of the barrel will be transferred to the bullet. If the bullet travels in direction x while being fired it will continue to do so after it leaves the barrel.

Um, no, to the lot of this.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

And this proves exactly what I've been saying all along. You don't listen to a word you've been told. Why don't you go ahead and try reading what I wrote about 10 times now where I've been stating all along that the line can and will bend ONLY if for example, you are pulling extreme G's, your body got moved in such an extreme force (aka me saying if you were hit by a freight train) etc. etc..

Before you backpeddle any further, I suggest you actually read what has been written next time. I would have thought saying the same thing 20 times now would have sank in to most people without an infant mentality. Congrats.

How am I back peddling?

My position hasn't changed from day 1. I said tracer moves around due to movement.

The problem in cod is that at all times even under high G the tails remain perfectly straight it's almost like they are skidding along the arc they follow, back end slightly out.

They only point to where they are going with no regard to where they were in the previous frame. I've never see a curved bar of light in cod. That's my point.

The fact still remains that my whole argument has been that tracer can appear to curve. You are saying that they only curve under high G.

I'm saying it's a scalable phenomenon and that it happens with any movement and increases relative to speed, I don't know at what point it becomes percepitble, but it does not just switch on ond off at high G, it's incremental.

The thing is, my suggestion to treat it as 2d paint trail would eliminate the question of if you can notice it or not, because you'd noitce it if you could, and not have to render lots of fake bars of light.

I still don't understand why you're arguing with me.