Germany did not lose the Battle of Britain

[Crumpp]

Well, my point regarding fuel was that the oil/fuel mixing stuff on the western front started as a fuel saving measure. Which two of you didn't believe until(hopefully) I posted a direct quote,

I had no contention on the fuel savings. I was pointing out that using a fuel oil mix to start the engine once was an improvement over the reduction in service life from continuous starts and ground runs.

You said it was bad for the engine, I pointed out the system became standard because it is better for the engine than the repeated ground runs.

[kimosabi]

So is this still practiced today? I guess not. How about that. Did you read anything about what I wrote about gasoline and solvent capabilities? How it works with engine oil? Tell you what, put a few drops of oil in your hand, get some on your thumb and index fingers and rub them together, then add a few drops of gasoline on and mix it together with the oil in your hand and repeat. Notice if you have more or less friction in the mixed oil compared to pure oil. That's what your bearings will experience. First few seconds of a cold start is the harshest time of your engine's running life. When it's warm started you still have enough oil in your bearings from the last start, plus the oil is thin enough to transport immediately. Cold oil/drained bearings takes a second or two for oil pressure to build up. You do lower the viscosity but in the same time you sacrifice lube quality. It's more about getting the oil to where you want it, not better lubrication. So yeah, in my world it is a compromise.

Edit* Crap, I was done with this topic yo, see what you didded.

[Crumpp]

So is this still practiced today? I guess not. How about that.

If anyone had the need to keep a piston engine aircraft warmed up at all times to launch an intercept mission without access to prime power....


It certainly would still be in practice!

[kimosabi]

I srsly doubt that with todays oil/starter/battery/engine quality. Those lumps back then were heavy and crude enough just to crank empty. lol I want one.

[MaxGunz]

Rolls Royce Merlin engines .... crude?

[kimosabi]

Considering that you today can squeeze out that hp/torque safely from a piston engine half its size, I'd say so.

[nearmiss]

Internal combustion engines... pretty well done back then.

There are certainly refinements in oils, fuels, computerized ignition systems today, which provide more horsepower.

Even if they had current technology back then we have today their engines wouldn't have done any better than they did. The conditions those old warbirds had to fly under were delimiting.

All types of weather and environmental extremes, shortages of adequate parts, etc. I doubt the screaming little internal combustion engines we have today would have been reliable under such conditions.

Back then horsepower was important, but reliability was just as important.

[MaxGunz]

Take a modern Formula One engine that has such tight tolerances it has to be heated to operating temperature -just to start without being ruined- as an example of the best power/weight IC made, and they are good for one race....

hope no one thinks that all the parts in those exchange easily.

That kind of fit was possible in 1936 too. The tightness of machining then for those engines was high though nowhere as CNC fast as now. But they did have to make the things able to cold start, be fixed relatively quickly, and last just a bit longer.

Perhaps you need to have cut metal yourself to understand just how fine the better AC engines of those times really are. Calling the Merlins crude is like saying that people in the past were stupid because they didn't know what is known by some people now. Yet we can't get a real dialog on global warming....

You want crude, get an old Harley made to 1910 technology -- any made up to perhaps the 60's.

[JtD]

If you want to compare today's F1 engines with older technology, you should compare it with older F1 engines, not aircraft engines. Turbocharged these managed up to about 500 hp from 3 litres displacement in 1939, considerably more than contemporary aircraft engines. Naturally aspirated they were at about 50 hp per litre, today were at about 300.

[MaxGunz]

Why? Formula racing is a very different sport just from the 60's let alone the 30's, not just in the cars but the monnnnney poured into it. Is anyone winning with cars built in old barns in the last 20-30 years?

I've seen the Austrian air-rifle that Lewis and Clark took across the American continent and back. It's nothing as good as an M-1 yet I wouldn't be gauche enough to call it crude. The thing was very fine even for today. And look at those really old musical instruments that didn't have MIDI or pickups of any kind.. crude?

Crude AC engines were the radials they used in early WWI.