Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

He didn't say anything about keeping station, he describes going full throttle in anticipation of an engagement. Neither of us knows if they were in formation at that point or if they had broken up to pick their targets, because the quote you supplied doesn't mention anything about it.

As for the rest of your post, 11 minutes is a reasonable amount of time (even though exceeding the specified guidelines) and a far stretch from all day long WEP running.

Let me ask you one question just to eliminate any suspicion of bias and restore my willingness to be convinced that your arguments are about what you perceive to be historically accurate and not about gameplay advantages: if someone finds combat reports stating similar situations for 109s, will you be content to let DB601s run WEP in a similar fashion (ie, with the only constraint being fuel expense)?

I think that its pretty clear that the Squadron leader wanted them to climb in formation.

A Merlin III at 12lb/3000rpm will typically use 115 gal/hr. The maximum possible time for a Spitfire is 45 mins, and about 55mins for a Hurricane. Using say 20 gals for non boost operations, the max time for a Spit falls to 34 mins.

I suspect that info on WEP times for the Luftwaffe's engines must exist and I have no doubt that some of them could be run for extended periods at WEP, and it would be interesting to read such info. I have no doubt that an Me110 pilot might feel compelled to run at WEP for extended periods, when in combat with one engine out and multiengined Merlin powered aircraft had similar experiences, but a SE Merlin engined fighter doesn't have enough fuel to run for very long at 12lb/3000rpm.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

I like how you guys present letters that talk about planning to supply these stations with fuel as concrete evidence that they were supplied.

But it is a plan, a plan that differs from the pre war intention, a plan based on stations not squadrons. This does make sense as pre war, squadrons were based at fixed stations but once the war started squadrons moved around so for logistical reasons it had to be stations.

It is also clear that the plan is dependent on the oil stocks being in place and that once those reserves are in place can be initiated.

So the next question is when were the fuel reserves in place and when was the permission to proceed given as permission is obviously needed.

PS did you ever get the link to the paper that you requested from Kurfurst?

[Glider]

I am afraid that I don't have the time I thought I was going to have but can quickly deal with the comment Kurfurst made about the Pilots notes for the Spit II.

There are two sets of pilots notes for the Spit II both of the dated June 1940 which is confusing. Kurfursts one states both types of fuel mine only 100 octane so there is an obvious queston as to which one applies at what time.
The decider I believe is in the other details in the pilots notes. The one Kurfurst quotes in section 35 and the gun controls goes into detail about how to choose the 20mm and/or the LMG's. The one that I have only talks about one firing choice withthe 8 guns specifically mentioned in item 44.

As we know the Spit II in the BOB was only armed with 8 x LMG so I believe that this is the one for the BOB period.

Twin fuel options for the 20mm cannon armed Spit II does make sense in early/mid 41, as the Spit II was quickly followed into service by the Spit V and the earlier Spits transfered to training roles which used 87 Octane fuel.

I attach links to both sets of notes for people to look at and comment on.

The version Kurfurst has
http://www.plane-design.com/document...e%20Manual.pdf

The Version I am referring to
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/oth...uals-9050.html

So to sum up I believe that the 8 guns version with only 100 octane fuel is the BOB version. The 20mm gunned version with both 87 and 100 octane fuel is post BOB when in training command.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Glider

PS did you ever get the link to the paper that you requested from Kurfurst?

No. I'm waiting for my account to be activated at allaboutwarfare, but I think it's been deleted as I can no longer log in.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

No. I'm waiting for my account to be activated at allaboutwarfare, but I think it's been deleted as I can no longer log in.

Thanks for this, I keep renewing mine but it doesn't get activated.

[CaptainDoggles]

The owner, butch2k doesn't seem to be very experienced at administrating forums.

Apparently he manually approves all registrations, and unless you have an existing user to vouch for you your account is not approved.

[Glider]

Kurfurst
Its late but I will comment on another of your points namely

The fact that the vast majotity of the fuel consumed was steadily 87 octane until the end of September 1940 (in agreement with Pips)

The important thing is the noticable increase in 100 Octane in September. Unfortunately we only have an average consumption figure for June to August of 10000 tons a month. I would expect the August figure to be very similar to September.

There is little doubt that the consumption of 87 Octane was broadly similar until the end of Sept 1940 (Paper Attached) but I wouldn't have expected anything else. The Other Commands were not given clearence to use 100 Octane until August 1940 (Paper attached) and it would have taken a little time to move the quantaties of fuel around.
In fact its noticable that in September the usage of 87 octane fuel started to fall despite the intensity of operations. The overall consumption figure, (combined 87 and 100 Octane) for August is almost identical to September 36,000 tons vs 37,000 tons but the 100 octane is going up and the 87 Octane down.

Remembering that the policy for the replacement of fuel in No 2 Group was to replace empty 87 Octane tanks with 100 Octane, the immediate effect would be little difference in the consumption of 87 Octane in late August / early September as the tanks are emptied, but a significant increase in the proportion of 100 Octane issued, to refill the empty tanks.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

The owner, butch2k doesn't seem to be very experienced at administrating forums.

Apparently he manually approves all registrations, and unless you have an existing user to vouch for you your account is not approved.

I wasn't aware of that. If there is anyone on this forum who could help speed things up, it would be appreciated

[CaptainDoggles]

I've been in contact with someone on ww2aircraft.net who is trying to help me out. If/when my account gets activated I'll see if I can get you set up.

[Crumpp]

If there is anyone on this forum who could help speed things up, it would be appreciated

I can try for you. Butch2K helped us to get some parts for our SVK-2 and i have his contact info around here somewhere.

Shoot me an IM with your info CaptainDoggles.