Yet another week of running in the dark.

[Fragal]

sorry I gotta chime in - have you ever worked in a software house environment or along a journalistic route - there the same principal and that principal is called a deadline. Software and game industries work to deadlines do you seriously believe that they have the time let alone the energy to drop a quick hello onto these forums - no I don't and I do work at a software house I don't think about forums or community when all I'm trying to do is get on with my job - Christ a week goes by without anything and all you can do is whine who cares they are doing the job, at the minute the deadline is the US release and that release is coming soon don't you think the devs are aware of the issues and bugs by now it gets bleated left right and centre every five minutes on these forums silence is good news means they are getting on with the job. It's not that they don't care of course they do you whine about the state of the sim after 6 years of development after less than 2 months of playing grow up and have some faith they've been working for 6 years! don't you think that grates on them too 6 years chaps - 6 years of someone in an office going to work everyday like you do sometimes getting stuck in traffic jams, babies being born family passing away etc - don't you think they've got enough on their plate let them do the job don't depend on luthier to bring you an update every week, just get on with it like they do like I do - I'm not upset i don't care if i get an update every week, live your lives if you can't maybe you should stick with chess it's dependable and the bugs have been worked out.

[whatnot]

Originally Posted by Fragal

sorry I gotta chime in - have you ever worked in a software house environment or along a journalistic route - there the same principal and that principal is called a deadline. Software and game industries work to deadlines do you seriously believe that they have the time let alone the energy to drop a quick hello onto these forums - no I don't and I do work at a software house I don't think about forums or community when all I'm trying to do is get on with my job - Christ a week goes by without anything and all you can do is whine who cares they are doing the job, at the minute the deadline is the US release and that release is coming soon don't you think the devs are aware of the issues and bugs by now it gets bleated left right and centre every five minutes on these forums silence is good news means they are getting on with the job. It's not that they don't care of course they do you whine about the state of the sim after 6 years of development after less than 2 months of playing grow up and have some faith they've been working for 6 years! don't you think that grates on them too 6 years chaps - 6 years of someone in an office going to work everyday like you do sometimes getting stuck in traffic jams, babies being born family passing away etc - don't you think they've got enough on their plate let them do the job don't depend on luthier to bring you an update every week, just get on with it like they do like I do - I'm not upset i don't care if i get an update every week, live your lives if you can't maybe you should stick with chess it's dependable and the bugs have been worked out.

I beg to differ. Posting and update to a customer base often requesting one should be pretty high on the todo list. It is indeed the 5-10 mins a week that would be sufficient to keep the communication flow alive at this stage. Loosing that time will not change anything of importance what comes to the progress they can make with CloD before the US release.

And why would it mean that you need to communicate less the longer you've developed your initial release? If you work on a project for six years, and still have issues after release I think it's even more of a reason to connect with the customers. You need to convice them of the fact that despite we spent so much time on the development we will be quick in fixing the issues instead of spending a long time on it again.

I'm not saying that I would be desperate for updates per se, as there has been pretty frequent patches etc. I'm just saying that frequent customer communication is a fundamental thing in time of 'crisis' (I recon this situation qualifies as such, given the number of issues and scoring from many reviews?). And saying that one would not have the time for it is untrue. It is a matter of priorities and as I see it they should re-prioritize. And I don't mean reading through the all the threads, but communicating actively in a recurring manner. I would even concider making a bug tracker visible for all to see what the devs are aware of.

But it seems that the importance of good communication is understood at Maddox too based on the message of hiring a community manager. So maybe we'll see a change there.

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

[rpgielow]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

You are pretty well equiped to run this games You are having problems with FPS or are you mad about other bugs

I think we are here as beta testers. You dont need to be smart to see that it is the truth as they are always delaying the USA release date. They just dont call it BETA.

Besides that, I am creating my own training missions on FMB and getting acquainted to the sim while we dont have the final product

[Rather peeved]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

again I agree. but i must say it's not so much the fact the game was released in such a shoddy state which annoys me, but the fact so many untruths were told in the lead up to release.

i can forgive incompetence or lack of resources or whatever, but i can't stand being bullshi##ed to.

[Tiger27]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

As your responce fits my comments about not requiring an apology, I will respond, what is this thing you have with apologies, by the way? I know what I would prefer and that is the game working for everyone, apologies would be nice, but worthless if they give up on fixing it.

This rubbish about playing into the hands of shoddy software companies is just that, rubbish, how would an apology from a shoddy software company make you feel better, if they are shoddy they are probably also dodgy and as I said in my post an apology is worth nothing if it isnt backed up with something worthwhile self flaggelation maybe, or a nice spell in the comfy chair.

Too late to do much about how it was released etc, we have already bought it so now lets get it fixed and yes I totally agree a quick update wouldn't hurt, especially after a hot fix that was anything but a fix, then we get 10 days of silence, the team at Maddox games really needs to get themselves organised, or this won't be released by Christmas in the US.

Originally Posted by Tiger27

As your responce fits my comments about not requiring an apology, I will respond, what is this thing you have with apologies, by the way? I know what I would prefer and that is the game working for everyone, apologies would be nice, but worthless if they give up on fixing it.

This rubbish about playing into the hands of shoddy software companies is just that, rubbish, how would an apology from a shoddy software company make you feel better, if they are shoddy they are probably also dodgy and as I said in my post an apology is worth nothing if it isnt backed up with something worthwhile self flaggelation maybe, or a nice spell in the comfy chair.

Too late to do much about how it was released etc, we have already bought it so now lets get it fixed and yes I totally agree a quick update wouldn't hurt, especially after a hot fix that was anything but a fix, then we get 10 days of silence, the team at Maddox games really needs to get themselves organised, or this won't be released by Christmas in the US.

My response was aimed more at Troopers post, An apology usually means someone actually cares about what effect there actions have caused, with all the untruths before release it is quite clear that the Oleg/Luthier that were once worshipped by so many here have a much darker side.
However, I would like to think that Luthier has some respect for this community since he relies upon it so heavily now with the current state of CLOD. Obviously we will never see an apology, I know that, but I still think its a shame, because if Luthier could find it in himself to make a small statement of fact I am sure that it would do a lot to boost moral and to put the whole release mess behind us.

We have to remember that someone somewhere as made a lot of money out of this mess and I think we are owed some sort of explanation at least, if that is too much to ask or too painful to do, then in the very least after admitting here on these forums that a half finished game was released give us just 5 mins of your time on a weekly basis to let us know that it isn't all about the money anymore there is still some love here for the community.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

with all the untruths before release

Tree what are 'all the untruths' that you always go on about? Could you please link to the original posts?

We were promised by the developers more accurate flight models and damage models. We got them.

We were promised by the developers highly detailed terrain and objects. We got them.

We were told that a machine that could run IL2 1946 at maximum settings could run COD on mimimum settings, thankfully they were being overly cautious there an any people can run the sim on medium if not higher.

We were also promised dynamic weather, as far i I know we have it but most PC at this stage can't run it so you have to actually go and build a mission that's got it. How many have tried?

We have also been given a list of priorities and bugs that the developers are working towards solving. How often do you want the developers to come here and say "Sorry! Not ready yet" weekly, Daily or on the hour? Personally I'ld rather them being hard at work and tell us when they got something to show us.

Cheers!

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Tree what are 'all the untruths' that you always go on about? Could you please link to the original posts?

We were promised by the developers more accurate flight models and damage models. We got them.

We were promised by the developers highly detailed terrain and objects. We got them.

We were told that a machine that could run IL2 1946 at maximum settings could run COD on mimimum settings, thankfully they were being overly cautious there an any people can run the sim on medium if not higher.

We were also promised dynamic weather, as far i I know we have it but most PC at this stage can't run it so you have to actually go and build a mission that's got it. How many have tried?

We have also been given a list of priorities and bugs that the developers are working towards solving. How often do you want the developers to come here and say "Sorry! Not ready yet" weekly, Daily or on the hour? Personally I'ld rather them being hard at work and tell us when they got something to show us.

Cheers!

I can run Il-2 on max. But I know that CloD will not run on my current system, because RoF won't. (Dual Core processor, 2.0GHZ, ATI 4650 512mb, 4GB RAM). And even if CloD would run on the lowest settings, it would look and play worse than Il-2 or BoB2.
And the promises? Whilst I don't agree with the sentiment the team need to make allowances to suit certain people's wishes, Tree is correct in stating that we were promised many features. Oleg said that the terrain would be 'photo-realistic'. He also alluded to a dynamic campaign (which the original 2006 release said we would get). Other features included the ability to man AAA guns, and the weather model shown in the development shots clearly wasn't implemented into the game.
On the face of it, certain promises were kept, but the game is so bugged, the features just can't be used, sadly.

[Rather peeved]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Tree what are 'all the untruths' that you always go on about? Could you please link to the original posts?

We were promised by the developers more accurate flight models and damage models. We got them.

We were promised by the developers highly detailed terrain and objects. We got them.

We were told that a machine that could run IL2 1946 at maximum settings could run COD on mimimum settings, thankfully they were being overly cautious there an any people can run the sim on medium if not higher.

We were also promised dynamic weather, as far i I know we have it but most PC at this stage can't run it so you have to actually go and build a mission that's got it. How many have tried?

We have also been given a list of priorities and bugs that the developers are working towards solving. How often do you want the developers to come here and say "Sorry! Not ready yet" weekly, Daily or on the hour? Personally I'ld rather them being hard at work and tell us when they got something to show us.

Cheers!

c'mon mate - we got snowed.

they were showing us videos of the game running brilliantly just a week before release, when it was impossible on any such system to get these results.

they told us they'd gone out and recorded new aircraft sounds and even dubbed real merlin sounds over promo vids.

they spun us some nonsense about how brilliant the new AI modelling was.

Luthier got into some hilarious slanging match with tree a couple of months before release in which he implied tree was off his rocker to suggest the game was not running properly.

all the youtube vids released showing dogfights were done over ocean - not over land because the developers must have known how shocking performance was over land.

Don't get me wrong - i want to see this game come good. But man, if this were any other product I'd be thumping my fist on the counter demanding a refund.