Spit1a > SpitII

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

RAFfanboys and luftwiners...

Gota love em

oh wait..i started this

so... we meet again....

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by pupo162

so... we meet again....

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Osprey,

Side note, I don't know where it states in the German reference that the Spit was on 87 octane, surely the Germans had it available, just not in quantity. At this point of the war, weren't the Germans still importing fuel from Russia, and using stocks captures from France (i.e. French and British fuels)?

There is no reference about which octan fuel was used. But there is reference that both Spit and Hurrciane had 2 stage prop pitch.

Looking at speed comparision between Rechlin tested Spitfire, Hurricane and 109 E it is clearly too me that British fighters were used only 87 octan fuel.

" Speed: the Spitfire is at 0 m by ca. 20 km/h, at 4 km by ca. 10 km/h, Hurricane and
Curtiss at 0 and 4 km altitude by ca. 60 km/h. A similar superiority of the Bf 109 E
exists in the climb performance as well."

So in Rechlin test 109 E at sea level was faster by 20 km/h from SPit and 60 km/h from Hurrciane.

100 Octan fuel Spitfie MK1 ( +12 lbs) was faster then 109 E at low to medium alts and Hurriciane ( +12 lbs) should be slowier about 20-30 km/h then 109 ( at low alts)

It is clearly to me that British fighters in Rechlin used only lower 87 octan fuel.

RL Data Speed for comparsion between Sptfire MK1 +6 1/2 lbs (blue line) - Spit MK1 +12 lbs ( red) - Hurricane MK1 +12 lbs ( green) - 109 E-3 1.45 Ata ( black - based on German manual)



500 km/h at sea level is the best speed score for 109 E-3 as i saw in RL data ( it is from german manual for E-3 ) but most common known speed score is 467 km/h at 1.3 Ata ( 5 Minute Emergency Power). For SPitfire MK1 at + 6 1/2 lbs (87 octan fuel) is ab. 450 km/h ( 280 mph) and for Hurricane MK1 at 6 1/2 lbs ( 87 octan fuel) is ab. 426 km/h ( 265 mph).



And disscussion about how many squadrons used 100 Octan fuel during BOB is pointless to me. WE know that many squadron used 100 Octan fuel during BOB expecially these most importants sectors squadrons. So both version were used during BOB.

So to be fair we should have 2 or 3 version of Spitfire MK1 and Hurricane MK1 - with 2 stage prop pitch and 6 1/2lbs (pre BOB version without pilot armour and armoured windshield), 2 stage prop pitch at 12 lbs (early BOB version) and CS propeller at 12 lbs.

[whoarmongar]

BLAH, blah, blah,

ENOUGH for Gods sake.

All I can say is.

Do you really think, with Britain in a crucial battle for its life and existence, a fact fully recognised by its political leadership and the leadership of fighter command and having made strenuous efforts to get high octane fuel it would then deny that very fuel to the crucial fighter units in eleven and twelve group ? Well do you really ?

To be honest I have no axe to grind here, I really couldnt care if the flight models are correct, I dont even care very much if the spit has the wrong prop, fuel, performance.Or if the 109 is the wrong model, wrong speed or poor prop control or that the blenny struggles to make it off the runway let alone to France and back.

To be honest this game is neither fish nor fowl,
It clearly isnt a proper sim, how could it be ? It cant even get the most basic issues like fuel mix or aircraft ceiling correct
It clearly isnt a game, the campaign gameplay and missions are terrible, the multiplayer is poor.

The sound of you all argueing with real life data for this game is pathetic really
Venturi effects, drag coefficients,air compressability,fuel octane etc etc etc it has no meaning, I very much doubt this game models any of it.
For example I always fly at 22000 feet in a spit canopy open for better view,
I suffer no aerodynamic loss, no wind noise or buffeting, no adverse effects whatsoever. I always use lean mix in a spit coz the engine runs better even for take off, if I switch to lean the engine revs pick up, rich mix is not of any use whatsoever, so much for being a sim.

So cite your sources,gather your eye witness accounts, collate your historical documents, do your web searches to prove that your particular viewpoint is right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. It means nothing I doubt the devs even look on this site, I very much doubt any of your arguements will have any effect whatsoever on the future development of this game.

[winny]

Originally Posted by whoarmongar

BLAH, blah, blah,

ENOUGH for Gods sake.

All I can say is.

Do you really think, with Britain in a crucial battle for its life and existence, a fact fully recognised by its political leadership and the leadership of fighter command and having made strenuous efforts to get high octane fuel it would then deny that very fuel to the crucial fighter units in eleven and twelve group ? Well do you really ?

To be honest I have no axe to grind here, I really couldnt care if the flight models are correct, I dont even care very much if the spit has the wrong prop, fuel, performance.Or if the 109 is the wrong model, wrong speed or poor prop control or that the blenny struggles to make it off the runway let alone to France and back.

To be honest this game is neither fish nor fowl,
It clearly isnt a proper sim, how could it be ? It cant even get the most basic issues like fuel mix or aircraft ceiling correct
It clearly isnt a game, the campaign gameplay and missions are terrible, the multiplayer is poor.

The sound of you all argueing with real life data for this game is pathetic really
Venturi effects, drag coefficients,air compressability,fuel octane etc etc etc it has no meaning, I very much doubt this game models any of it.
For example I always fly at 22000 feet in a spit canopy open for better view,
I suffer no aerodynamic loss, no wind noise or buffeting, no adverse effects whatsoever. I always use lean mix in a spit coz the engine runs better even for take off, if I switch to lean the engine revs pick up, rich mix is not of any use whatsoever, so much for being a sim.

So cite your sources,gather your eye witness accounts, collate your historical documents, do your web searches to prove that your particular viewpoint is right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. It means nothing I doubt the devs even look on this site, I very much doubt any of your arguements will have any effect whatsoever on the future development of this game.

Awesome, thanks for that I'll take your advice and shut up then, I really really don't want to upset you more than you are already.

No more chatting XXXX about 109's and Spits because CoD is broken.
Whoarmonger has spoken.

How I pass my time has **** all to do with you.

[Danelov]

Yes, that´s right. Finally is only a game. If the idea is to find and flight a good Spitifire with good aerodynamics, taking in count all the variables, try FS2004 and FSX. There are very good stuff there and quite well simulated. And also as option, if you are not happy , the flight models can be edit and changed.Parameters like, power, prop type, engine gear ratio, props diameter, power absorved, coefficients, drag, fuel,fuel pressure, oil pressure, etc,etc.

[Kwiatek]

Sry but Fs2004 and FSX are really off in terms of realisitc flight models and performacne of planes.

Good combat flight simulator requires such things like realistic flight models and peformacne of planes beacuse if it doesnt have it would be only arcadish shooter like many others.

If i would like to play arcade flight shooter i will play WOP and there would be nonsense to make such game like ROF, A-10, Black Shark or even COD lol

[Kongo-Otto]

100 octane fuel used during the BOB?
Ah yes, i did read about that at an other forum, very interesting read indeed.

[winny]

I've seen this line on a website for Trimpel Oil refinery

By May 1940, reconnaissance Spitfires had begun flying combat missions using the 100 octane fuel. By 31 July 1940, there were 384 Spitfires serving in 19 squadrons using the 100 octane fuel.

There's no reference to where they got the 384 in 19 squadrons from.

[Danelov]

This one is really great and very well done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsgEiJoBxX0