Mods discussion, links, etc

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

Does that mean a restriction on including warships built at the Newport News ShipBuilding Yards only, or were other ship yards included in the agreement.

This means, all ships built, or designed by companies, which at some point become part of the N-G corp. So, if a certain ship class was designed and first laid at, say, Newport News and then it's sister-ship was built at some other factory, not owned by N-G, the sister ship is still under the restriction. If it was otherwise - then probably, not. But still, DT was asked to keep away from all US ships.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Yet there are a load of Japanese ship you could work on.

Officially there are no IJN Cruisers in game etc.

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

But still, DT was asked to keep away from all US ships.

Well that leaves no room for manoeuvre at all. --- at least officially.

At the risk of being quickly shot down - cause I'm no copyright lawyer.

I understand the legal position in the US to be along these lines:

For works published between 1923 and 1963, provided they were published with a copyright notice, the works had copyright protection for a term of 28 years. At the end of the 28 year period an extension of an additional 67 years could be requested, a total of 95 years.

If there was no copyright notice on the original work then they immediately became public domain.
If no extension was requested then they became public domain after the initial 28 years.

Plans of USS Yorktown held by HNSA (Historic Naval Ships Assoc) prepared by Newport News Ship Building Co are not copyright marked, therefore appear to be Public Domain.

Either way after 2041 all work produced up to 1946 becomes Public Domain, so not long to wait.

For any of the early BB's originally built in WWI the 95 years has already lapsed.

[Hans Burger]

We can discuss days and days on the subject without finding any compromises. One thing that DT can do to improve the game and without conflicts with external "moders", since tools are available and capacity also, is to update graphic engine and proc engine (multicore proc, sli,...).
This will be a big step forward and I am sure all FB community will recognize your leadership in this domain.
For the remaining, I am convinced that, all around the world, there are enough moders able to handle Java/C++ programing language, 3D, flight dynamics and knowing
enought about IL2 structure to improve, in these domains, this game.
At the end, all users will be satisfied and happy to have a game at 2011 standards. Moreover, each parts will work in a domain without interference with the other part.

[Mick]

I totally agree with you Hans Burger, that would just be great to have an updated graphics engine and multicore capability, and also the possibility to increase the number of slots available for map makers ...

Nobody needs a war between the DT and the modding communities, on the contrary ...

I can hardly imagine what IL2/46 could be if both "camps" worked in the same direction ...

[nearmiss]

The IL2 sturmovik - Forgotten Battles source code was hacked.

Third party mod programmers have taken liberties with intellectual property and violated all manner of laws in the process.

The TD made arrangements with Oleg to license the source code. The improvements in IL2 we enjoy from TD are what resulted. Someone had to "take charge" or the mods "hodge-podge" would eventually make IL2 a mess.

We did experience that when mods were first released. There were conflicts and issues constantly between different mods as they were applied to the IL2. Anyone that used mods can describe examples.
It wasnt' a nightmare, but it was close to insanity.

The purpose for licensing with TD was in part to insure stability in IL2 further development.

Mod programmers have the source code, afterall it's hacked. The mod programmers can do as they will with the code in so many words.

If Mod programmers go it alone, which they can do since they have the source. They can develop independently from the TD. If they ignore the core, which is updated by TD it will mean there will be a degradation of the core base for IL2 Sturmovik. This will over time make updates and mods a nuisance. There will be all kinds of issues between mods and the IL2.

The TD has made improvements in the core of the application and usually does some type of improvement with each update release. If mod developers will continue to use TD updates as a basis for applying their mods the consistency of IL2 can be preserved.

I am not apart of the TD, nor am I affiliated with them in any way. Like everyone else that appreciates the IL2-FB I want it to remain a good success.

We need the TD, and it was a smart move to preserve the integrity of IL2-FB by licensing a community minded group of programmers. TD is cooperative and open to suggestions, as we all know.

A team like TD can ad new members and members can drop out, but the integrity of the IL2 core programming can be maintained.

Several attempts to unify mod programmers have been tried, and success was dubious. Yes, there are a few successes, but will they have the staying power?

I'm not knocking anyone or group of mod consolidators by any means. IMO, Every mod developer can hold a place, if we just embrace one development group for maintaing IL2 core integrity as it is updated.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

At the risk of being quickly shot down - cause I'm no copyright lawyer.

Well that's an interesting point, but the problem is not in how much NG claims are legitimate. As far as I understood from what Ilya and other people from 1C told me, 1C, back in PF days, was forced to make a contract with NG, under which 1C obliges to pay a certain amount of money for inclusion of any NG-related subject.
So, even if suddenly the copyrights will be stripped from NG, 1C still will be restricted under this contract.

This is what I know about it. I may be wrong though, since I never saw this document and have no idea what is in it actually. Nevertheless, there was clear and strict order from Ilya and earlier by Maddox, that DT should not touch any US ships, or NG related planes and cockpits.

[bf-110]

And the Martin stuff?Why it can't be used ingame?Is it part of them now too?

And IDK why all that fuzz about the modders.If wasn't because of them,IL2 would be still on 4.08 and probably already loosing part of its fans.It gave the old good IL2 a second youth.I know that there are modders that take DT work and label as theirs,the ones that does s... work and maybe even some that used the code in the early days to cheat,but labeling modders as criminals is exaggerating a lot,isn't it?

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by bf-110

If wasn't because of them,IL2 would be still on 4.08

No sht! Really?!

Originally Posted by bf-110

And the Martin stuff?Why it can't be used ingame?Is it part of them now too?

I don't know about Martin history, but it seems to me, that they do not have any relation to NG. This should be researched separately. However, I didn't see any official statement that Martin products are restricted like the NG ones.

Originally Posted by bf-110

but labeling modders as criminals is exaggerating a lot,isn't it?

And why do you suddenly think, someone labels all modders as criminals?

PS I'd rather separate the discussion of DT issues and DT-related work from mods discussion and do all DT-related talks in the respective forum section. I kind of feel uncomfortable by hijacking this thread from poor modders.

[Aracno]

Originally Posted by bf-110

And the Martin stuff?Why it can't be used ingame?Is it part of them now too?

And IDK why all that fuzz about the modders.If wasn't because of them,IL2 would be still on 4.08 and probably already loosing part of its fans.It gave the old good IL2 a second youth.I know that there are modders that take DT work and label as theirs,the ones that does s... work and maybe even some that used the code in the early days to cheat,but labeling modders as criminals is exaggerating a lot,isn't it?

We never labelled modders as criminals.
Most of us started as modders.
I was a modders and a noob 3D modeller, still I am, and the guys of the team helped me to grow in my skill, released my model in their patch and finally accepted me in the group.
Still we have a 3rd party forum were "modders" can cooperate with us making features for the patch .....
Some of my best friends are modders.
Why the hell I should be against them?


Aracno
TD 3d modeller and, as member of an online squad, happy user of one great modpack (dont ask wich one).