COD Map Tree Placement Issues - Dev Rework or SDK?

[kendo65]

This is something I've been pondering for a while. I have read the recent discussion here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...=22249&page=46
but decided to go ahead and post this in its own thread.

In my opinion the biggest issue with the COD map is not colour balance or texture quality - it is the placement of trees. They are generally positioned too haphazardly and are too sparse. The overall effect detracts from creating a 'believable' representation of the English countryside.

In reality trees tend to be either packed in fairly dense woodland clusters or are used almost exclusively along field boundaries in conjunction with hedgerows:

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3


With COD:
Pic 4

Pic 5

Pic 6


COD seems to have several problems in recreating the reality:
1. Tree density is too low. Tree lines are so sparse that they lack the necessary visual impact.

2. Placement is too much along river and road edges rather than field boundaries. In addition there is no adequate representation of hedgerows - which should be a very common feature.

3. There seems to be a problem with precise tree placement. For example - the double lines of trees placed along the roads (Pic 5) is an attempt to recreate a common feature, but the placement is far too loose to make it believable. (For a real-life comparison look at the line of trees running vertically just to right of centre in top half of Pic 1)

4. The low density combined with lack of precise placement can result in tree features blending together in an amorphous mass rather than maintaining the intended demarcated features.



The low tree density is obviously an fps consideration and is adjustable to a limited, but I would say not an adequate, extent. [with current hardware at least]

The positioning issues are either down to problems with the game/engine or a symptom of the generally rushed job to get the game released.

Interestingly though, when it was still called SOW the results seemed to be more realistic:

Pic 7


Generally trees are positioned along field boundaries and even some hedgerows are visible.

So, what happened? And can we look forward to the map being reworked and improved in future? (as resources permit obviously).

Luthier mentioned some minor changes to the map in the latest beta patch. Other reports mention 50% of all features still to be implemented, including map features such as new improved water and waves. What about hedgerows? Is that another overlooked feature that will eventually be added?

Reworking tree placement over the whole of the map is obviously a big task and something that the devs may not be able to devote themselves to in the near future.

So.....great results were achieved with some of the old maps in modded il-2. When the SDK is released, presumably the COD map could be given some tlc too.

I would prefer that the devs were to do the job, but given all the tasks that need attention it may not happen?



Finally, as others have mentioned elsewhere WOP actually does a good job on this specific issue of getting the tree placement right:

Pic 8


I hope that Zorin and the others who originally posted the COD screens I have used don't mind me using them to make my points. Cheers

[W0ef]

Good, well thought out post.

I don't know if I mind the tree placement that much myself but it seems hedgerows at least are included in the FMB, so why not put them in with an option, same for something like forest density.

I agree that your pic 7 (That's the SOW one if I'm not mistaken?) got it just right.

But yeah, for me there are still other more pressing matters to attend to right now.

And before you get me wrong, I love CoD already for all it's flaws

[Buchon]

This screenshot is from one of the development updates time ago :



You can see hedgerows, bushes groups and dark trees (maybe in excess).

Luthier mentioned that there placeholders in the map now, and I guess that some things was turned off cause the initial performance problems.

I think that it will be back when the performance problems get sorted, and the collision issues as well.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

yes it would make it more immersable for me,the earlier cod pics were better i agree

[sigur_ros]

Those trees look dark because they have no highlight, retail version has very strong highlight makes them look pale. There is too much work for free patches, I doubt much landscape will change before another retail ver$ion. There isn't even texture layer for trees and hedgrows for distant rendering (like RoF), they disappear and land is naked.

[philip.ed]

+1 to this, well thought out and well said Kendo.

Notice, as well, how in photos of the English landscape, the tree-trunks are barely visible, if visible at all.
Also, the colour of the foliage gets a lot darker at distance or altitude, but there is a distinctive burnished look to the foliage, which looks almost murky. I'm not sure what season this may appear in.
Similarly, rather than trees, thick (neat) hedgerows are needed as well; probably in preference to trees in most cases....I think this is possible.
Some screenshots of CoD, currently, show a lot of trees, but as you say Kendo, they are placed almost randomly, and this makes the landscape look rather messy.
A lot of these trees could be cut down (scuse the pun) and replaced by hedges, bushes, or thick foliage.
As a user has said before in another topic, in a lot of cases, the bushes grow into trees, and this transition can be seen in photos of England, making the bushes/hedges look like they have grown denser over the years.

+1 here too

[RocketDog]

I think the terrain colours also need some serious attention.

As an experiment, I compared photos I have taken at ~ 4,700' amsl in summer over Wiltshire in the SW of the UK (top left of CloD's map) with the game's representation of UK terrain. I actually just used the costal free-fly mission, but I don't think it makes any difference. Both sets of images are taken at 14:00. I flew the Spitfire to 4,700' using its altimeter. Here are the results.

As has been noted by many people, CloD isn't bad, but the colours are just too washed out and the landscape remains a pale green into the far distance, rather than "bluing out" with haze. Some of this may be because I am using an ATI card and the game looks like it was built for Nvidia hardware, but the general result is clear.

1. CloD's terrain colours are too pale.

2. CloD's trees aren't dark enough.

3. CloD doesn't manage clumps of woodlands particularly well.

4. CloD is missing the dark edges to many fields (hedges).

CloD:
Looking towards the Sun


Looking away from the Sun


Looking down from above


Here are the view from my glider:
Looking away from the Sun






Looking towards the Sun


Looking pretty much straight down

[JumpingHubert]

in comparison there is a nearly complete lack of blue haze. But its difficult: there are a couple of effects depends on camera setup.

[philip.ed]

Very nice RD. one thing to note, though, is that duing the BoB, there were no rape fields in England (in case anyone makes the mistake, in the future, of adding them to the game)

Great comparisons, and I agree with JH; blue haze is definitely needed