Mini-update from devs

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

Why would anyone attack you? You don't like the game. So what? Anyone who watches video of the game can make up their own mind about your evaluation of the game.

You need to stop this silly paradigm of "if someone criticises the game or the devs they dont like the game". Its simply not true, its a case of either:1. They bought the game and feel they did not get their moneys worth and therefore want to devs to improve it OR 2. They care about the game and its progress/success and are here to try to help bring light to the issues and possible fixes, or even just to throw in their 2 cents which if everyone does will help the game (not your $ but your honest opinion).

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

You need to stop this silly paradigm of "if someone criticises the game or the devs they dont like the game". Its simply not true, its a case of either:1. They bought the game and feel they did not get their moneys worth and therefore want to devs to improve it OR 2. They care about the game and its progress/success and are here to try to help bring light to the issues and possible fixes, or even just to throw in their 2 cents which if everyone does will help the game (not your $ but your honest opinion).

I don't need to stop anything. As long as you feel the need to launch pointless attacks on the game, I'm probably going to keep defending it.

By the way, I'd love to know how "all is doomed!" posts are going to help the game?

[lbuchele]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

I don't need to stop anything. As long as you feel the need to launch pointless attacks on the game, I'm probably going to keep defending it.

By the way, I'd love to know how "all is doomed!" posts are going to help the game?

I think the same way of David.
It's beyond my comprehension what kind of help to the game we can do acting like the prophet of Apocalypse...
We all know at this time that the game was released unfinished,you are a bit late in telling us.
But we all are seeing too the huge improvement the game received in a short time from release.
So,you maybe are pissed off with MG staff and believe me I am too,but clearly the game is growing,not dying.
But you can't see this if you don't want to see...

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by lbuchele

I think the same way of David.
It's beyond my comprehension what kind of help to the game we can do acting like the prophet of Apocalypse...
We all know at this time that the game was released unfinished,you are a bit late in telling us.
But we all are seeing too the huge improvement the game received in a short time from release.
So,you maybe are pissed off with MG staff and believe me I am too,but clearly the game is growing,not dying.
But you can't see this if you don't want to see...

Who is late in telling you? Me? If you are talking about me I actually have a pretty good track record with predictions as to specific problems and remedies. David is just to lazy to go back and read them because all he does is troll anyone who has any criticisms of the game.

[ChrisDNT]

"Who the hell needs rolling grass, tank gun recoil, trains modeled in extreme detail, whole map of SE England..."

+1 and I'm not happy to say that.

Too much developing time has been lost on non vital features or elements.
Just an example, the Me108. I personnally do like this aircraft, but what is its purpose in a combat sim, as it was a liaison aircraft.

[JG14_Jagr]

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

JG14 Jagr that was well said. I agree with everything you've written. I have been on the Il2 sim for the last 10 or so years and it did get better and better. This will too and I must say it certainly has come forward leaps and bounds over the last few weeks. You only have to read my posts to see that I went from a madman going nutso to someone who is enjoying what we have at the moment, knowing that other fixes will come. I really really really want multiplayer to be fixed but now I'm prepared to wait.

Doesn't mean I'm happy that many things didn't work at the start but now I'm more relaxed about it.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by jg14_jagr

i've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what cod developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in beta testing falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. And after putting in enormous amount of work, hardware 3d came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3d engine. The scope of it was massive as is cod.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.i'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3d technology and cpu powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3d war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. Some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. And the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the epilepsy filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. Since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played il2 from the beginning and still do. And i can see the core potential of this sim to take over where il2 has left off. There is 100x more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. Their priorities are in order.. Performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that pc flight sims are a dying breed.. You won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for ps3 and xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. You need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 us. The game is not where i want it to be, but i understand that it can be more than i ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

+100

[addman]

Originally Posted by JG14_Jagr

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim.. I've done research for a couple of sim companies and beta tested quite a few games/simulations. I can tell you with all honesty that the scope of what COD developers tried to create is beyond what can be realistically developed in a time frame that will not lag generations behind hardware development. I was involved in Beta testing Falcon 4.0 and the goals were quite similar.. and after putting in enormous amount of work, Hardware 3D came along and rendered (no pun intended) much of the work useless since it used a software 3D engine. The scope of it was massive as is COD.

The game is not where it should have been for release.. I don't have to tell you that.I'll give you my opinions based on some experience as to what happened and why. The game was developed over a long period of time by a limited number of staffers. It was not the primary project, it was developed almost as a side job while other projects were being done for a significant part of the time involved. There were times when it was more or less shelved for periods of time. There was people joining and leaving..other people having to get up to speed and people who were experts on certain areas moved on..its what happens in software development. The original goals were worked on and many very cool things were developed and update and hardware 3D technology and CPU powers expanded. I'd bet that the idea of potentially creating a full 3D war game..ground, sea, and air, integrated successfully for the first time in this kind of Fidelity and graphics. Some of those goals were counterproductive.. some of the detail on the ground sucked away resources that a pure flight sim could have used elsewhere.

Eventually the project was on the verge of losing its funding and the resources were going to be moved on to more profitable ventures. So, it became fish or cut bait time.. and the guys still working on it began to try and pull everything together and disabled anything they hadn't yet implemented. A date was set and they began to move towards it and then the Epilepsy Filter issue came up and made an already bad situation even worse..7 years of anticipation made it just about impossible to have a well received release because there is no way that everything that had been talked about could be reay on release.

There was a reason why they game was released when it was, those pressures usually come from the producers who are funding things.. since a couple of weeks of patching have made a world of difference, its obvious that they were not in a position where 2 weeks was going to be allowed. The package got out the door and we have what we have. I for one played IL2 from the beginning and still do. And I can see the core potential of this sim to take over where IL2 has left off. There is 100X more headroom on this engine to really bring in some great things over the next weeks, months, and even years. I think anyone can see that.

I think that the time line they have laid out is a good one.. their priorities are in order.. performance and core hardware support is first, to be followed by fixes to game play. The fixes they have made in ust the last couple of weeks have made an enormous difference for most people. The thing that people need to realize is that PC FLight sims are a dying breed.. you won't see western based houses build them to this level of detail because the time required exceeds the return when you are paying western engineer salaries. You won't see many of them because development houses can code for PS3 and Xbox and get a much better return for far less effort.

There are serious issues to sort out. Performance and hardware support are the biggest in my opinion. Multiplayer would be next, and while they are doing that, there will be a host of smaller game play fixes that get implemented while they are "under the hood" working on other things. Once they reach a certain level of performance and stability, then they can polish this for months if not years and it will still keep getting better. Some people are fixated on the smallest of game play issues while there are far more serious problems to devote resources to initially.. you need to have a little patience and common sense..

If you are a flight sim fan, you have to realize that simulations like this will not be coming out anymore, for a good reason..they are a bear to build and don't give the quick return that other titles do. I bought 2 copies, about $65 US. The game is not where I want it to be, but I understand that it can be more than I ever hoped in time. I hope they succeed..

+1

One of the most sober and level-headed posts I've read on this forum for a looong time. I agree with everything written above. Stop looking for scape goats and answers, above are your answers albeit not from an official source.

[Viking]

Originally Posted by JG14_Jagr

I've seen some of the production necessary for the creation of a flight sim..

etc
+1
I will bye a copy when I get home from vacation next week. In september I will hopfully have the hardware and time to get airborne. 1C should have started with a civil air project IMHO. A more mature audience. Kids today are to much focused on quick fixes and rapid gameplay.

See you all in the ether in september!

Viking