Things like this is suffering for this great game.

[djsatane]

Dont forget ther eis patch coming in a week, preview and changelog:

http://www.digitalmindsoft.eu/forums...t=9326#p109048

[Bellator]

What the OP doesn't realize here is that the maximum range and penetration power of the guns ingame and in real life aren't comparable.

For example, the max range of the AT & tank guns ingame is 180 (I'm assuming meters?), but the penetration of the guns at this range are not the same as in real life. In MoW the guns lose their penetration power faster than in real life, and this to simulate longer range engagements.

To try and suggest that the Super Pershing, and even worse, the IS-3, should be able to penetrate the KT's lower front hull at the ingame range of 136m is absurd when you consider that an ingame range of 136 translates to roughly 1800 meters in real life: a range at which the Super Pershing's gun couldn't ever hope to penetrate the lower front hull, and the IS-3's gun wouldn't even be capable at 200 meters, let alone 1800!

Now if the OP wants higher realism, then I suggest increasing the 88mm PaK43's ingame penetration performance at 180m from 92mm to 110mm, seeing as the gun in reality was capable of defeating the 152mm front of a heavy Churchill tank all the way past 3000 meters with its' std. AP round.

Just some food for thought...

[Bellator]

Originally Posted by roptor90

Its hard to answer on your arguments mate. If i was able to find any logic in it...

But i try...

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59...CC2C54D2574C7/

Where from did you get 136 meters ?

98 meters then, the first picture u showed the KT was 136 meters away... big difference

98 meters ingame would correspond to around 1300 meters in RL, which is still WAAAY outside the range that the 90mm T15E3 gun would be able to penetrate the frontal lower hull of the KT, with APCR or not.

You also mentioned the 122mm D25T of the IS2 & -3, which was absolutely horrible in the AT role, with a terribly slow RoF and a penetration performance no better than the Panther's 75mm KwK42 when fired against the same quality armor. So why you'd expect this gun to do more than just dent the frontal armour of the KT I have no clue.... oh wait, maybe some obscure Soviet test where they hammered a KT with hundreds of shells of all calibers until the thing litterally fell apart

Overall info about Super Pershing.

Note length of barrel, 73 calibres to compete with the 88 mm KwK 43 L/71 calibres gun of the Tiger II.

And what am I supposed to use that info for? The length of the barrel is but one part of the equation, what about the size of the propellant charge and quality of the projectile? Seems you're a beginner in this area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Super_pershing.jpg

In an effort to match the firepower of the Tiger II's more powerful 88 KwK43, the T15E1 90 gun was developed and mounted in a T26E1 in January 1945. This tank was designated T26E1-1. The T15E1 gun was 73 calibers in length and had a much longer high capacity chamber. This gave it a muzzle velocity of 3,750 ft/s (1,140 m/s) with the T30E16 APCR shot and could penetrate the Panther's frontal armor at up to 2,600 yd (2,400 m) ( Panther had frontal hull armor 60-80mm under 55 degrees vertical and 110mm turret ) . This model used a single piece 50 in (1,300 mm) long ammunition.

So i don`t see any doubts about its power mate.

And yet the 88mm KwK43 still outperformed the T15E3 with std. APCBC shot at all ranges, and APCBC has a much longer effective range than APCR, hence why APCR range is lower ingame.

PS: Unless references are provided, I wouldn't trust wikipedia on anything.

[Bellator]

Sorry, but I am infact talking about the LOWER front hull of 100mm thickness sloped at 50 degrees from the vertical. So my point still stands.

[GrimReaper]

"136 meters ingame is roughly 1800 meters in real life" ?

Where did you read it ? Can you give us the source of this info please ?

[Bellator]

Originally Posted by roptor90

So what`s your problem then ? Type normal arguments please and not in "IQ85" style like:

Judging from your manner of constructing a case I wouldn't be talking about IQ's if I were you.

Point is that the 90mm T15E3 would not penetrate the KT's lower front hull at anything but REALLY close range, and the 122mm D25T was completely unable to penetrate it at any range.

[Bellator]

Originally Posted by roptor90

Define "Really close range" please.

Well considering the poor performance of APCR versus sloped armour, it would probably be at around 300 meters. So it would be much better to shoot at the front turret then, considering the excellent performance of APCR versus non angled armour.

Originally Posted by roptor90

"122mm D25T was completely unable to penetrate it at any range" Yes ? It sounds like Tiger II was invulnerable to me...

From the front to the 122mm D25T, yes it was invulnerable. Unless ofcourse you shoot at it 200 times until the whole thing comes apart as at Kubinka.

[Bellator]

Originally Posted by GrimReaper

"136 meters ingame is roughly 1800 meters in real life" ?

Where did you read it ? Can you give us the source of this info please ?

Sure, look at the penetration figures... it's a simple matter of matching them up against the real ones, then you get an approximate range.