Bouncing needles

[Redroach]

Originally Posted by svanen

This happens when your engine starts running rough, it is very nice feature. The needle does not bounce when engine running smooth in a stable flight.

This, exactly this. I've been able to reproduce this, albeit more by accident, as I'm still learning...

I'm really amazed that those "guys who fly real aircraft with thousands of flight hours" don't get that.
But I don't worry there, 1C have their own flight testers. Some of these guys flew or fly the real thing(s), so I definately give more about them than about random internet "flight instructors".

Originally Posted by Redroach

This, exactly this. I've been able to reproduce this, albeit more by accident, as I'm still learning...

I'm really amazed that those "guys who fly real aircraft with thousands of flight hours" don't get that.
But I don't worry there, 1C have their own flight testers. Some of these guys flew or fly the real thing(s), so I definately give more about them than about random internet "flight instructors".

So next bug classified as irrelevant on this forum... If it is caused by shaking or turbulence, why the whole cockpit is not shaking? If you fly in plane and you fly into turbulence it is not just minor shaking, it is like someone is hitting you from different sides, you hear the sounds as different part of plane hit to each other. I don't see anything like that in CoD... I only see that needles are jumping like mad? But what is physically causing these jumps? Turbulence within each instrument, which is not effecting the plane as whole?

[Redroach]

Okay, maybe you have turned off the head bounce thingy, where it may be not as obvious, but:

I happen to be a physicist (for real, it's not just a random claim ) and the thing is that the engine has its resonance frequency just like anything else. So, if you have tuned your engine badly, it will be go into resonance, causing it to shake and vibrate. And, because the engine represents a large mass, it will shake up the entire airplane with it. This, in turn, includes cockpit instruments and, since the the instrument needles are allowed to move relative freely, inertia causes them to bounce as well.

Now this is less obvious in more modern cockpits, as advances have been made in mounting the engine(s) with dampening elements. The engines are designed to run more vibration-free, too and cockpit instruments, if not already digital, have also been improved, "decoupling" them from airframe vibrations in better ways. It's shouldn't be like 1940 anymore

I'm more and more amazed at the level of detail the developers introduced into CoD and it makes me sad that many of those details are, if not quite convenient, called "bugs" by some users. Don't get me wrong, there are bugs and there are quite a few, but CoD is NOT an arcade game and I really, really hope that Oleg, Luthier & co. stand by their philosophy in striving for realism - as this is the "perk" why the majority of players have fallen in love with the Il-2 line.

Originally Posted by Redroach

Okay, maybe you have turned off the head bounce thingy, where it may be not as obvious, but:

I happen to be a physicist (for real, it's not just a random claim ) and the thing is that the engine has its resonance frequency just like anything else. So, if you have tuned your engine badly, it will be go into resonance, causing it to shake and vibrate. And, because the engine represents a large mass, it will shake up the entire airplane with it. This, in turn, includes cockpit instruments and, since the the instrument needles are allowed to move relative freely, inertia causes them to bounce as well.

Now this is less obvious in more modern cockpits, as advances have been made in mounting the engine(s) with dampening elements. The engines are designed to run more vibration-free, too and cockpit instruments, if not already digital, have also been improved, "decoupling" them from airframe vibrations in better ways. It's shouldn't be like 1940 anymore

In reality, every turbulence has much stronger force effect than any engine and it is affecting whole plane and everything within it. Everything is shaking - pilots or passengers included.... In such cases the needles on instruments would be just "MAD" and completely useless which never ever happened in the whole flying history. Pilots heads is shaking more if going into the wild dive, whole plane is shaking like mad but pilots can still read the instruments. That's what they are trained for, read trembling(but not jumping) needle of instruments when their head is shaking like mad...

If it would only tremble (when starting, turning off, or dives on higher speeds) - OK... But right know it is just one of many little annoying "features" of this sim...

[bongodriver]

so I definately give more about them than about random internet "flight instructors".

I wonder who that is refering to......unnecessary personal attack

I happen to be a physicist (for real, it's not just a random claim )

why didn't I think of that......I forgot to say cross my heart

and the thing is that the engine has its resonance frequency just like anything else. So, if you have tuned your engine badly, it will be go into resonance, causing it to shake and vibrate. And, because the engine represents a large mass, it will shake up the entire airplane with it. This, in turn, includes cockpit instruments and, since the the instrument needles are allowed to move relative freely, inertia causes them to bounce as well.

I really don't agree, based purely on my 'claim' to be an actual pilot, not an effect I have heard of (until an eminent internet physicist said so), resonance on an airframe is a high frequency vibration, it doesn't cause needles to bounce as if you are driving a car off road.

[Redroach]

It wasn't directed against anyone, personally. I just happen to see more and more people reinforcing their claims with that.
But you're right, I should have left out my own statement about being a physicist, too. If I have to "scare away" people by claiming that I'm a "pro" on the matter (I'm not a 'pro' at all on these specific things, it's just general mechanics), I participate in the discussion in a wrong way.

[bongodriver]

I just realised that it might not have been me actually, I re read the entire thread....I guess I'm getting jumpy.....my bad.

in actual fact having re read the post I will withdraw my general statement on this, I think I am on a different wavelength...excuse the pun, of course instruments do bounce in turbulence and in severe engine rough running conditions, and to be honest I was concentrating on an exessive bounce with the RPM needle (this I do feel needs a tweaking)

[609_Huetz]

How about letting them fix the mixture control first before we jump to any conclusions.

Right now, even the auto-mixture on the 109 is causing problems at altitudes above ~3000 meters. It's only shake-free if you turn CEM off.

In comparison, it's not that bad at low altitudes when everything is set correctly using CEM. If however the problem still persists after the fix, we can start arguing it to death. (And the fanboys throw sh*t at R/L pilots because they point out obvious mistakes )