Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by madrebel

which again supports the theory that not all squadrons were operational with 100 octane until late or after the BoB.

That doesn't really matter when we're considering a BoB sim, though, does it? Who cares what 13 group were doing when our map doesn't even cover the area anyway? The fuel was being used by someone, and if it wasn't 10, 11 and 12 group fighters out of these consumption figures for the whole RAF, who was it? Remember the fuel was doled out by station, not by squadron. July - August we see that 27% of ALL RAF fuel consumed is 100 octane, and I can't imagine that was going to Bomber Command or Coastal Command.

Consumption InformationThe following information are the consumption details of fuel during the BOB period. This information has come from the War Cabinet Oil Position Monthly report that is available from the National Archives.

Consumption of Aviation Spirit
The following figures are for the whole of the RAF and are the Average Monthly Consumption

September – November 1939 16,000 tons
Dec 1939 – February 1940 14,000 tons
March 1940 – May 1940 23,000 tons
June 1940 – August 1940 10,000 tons (100 Oct) 26,000 tons (87 Oct)
Sept 1940 – November 1940 15,000 tons (100 Oct) 18,000 tons (87 Oct)

[madrebel]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

July - August we see that 27% of ALL RAF fuel consumed is 100 octane, and I can't imagine that was going to Bomber Command or Coastal Command.

so you're suggesting we just blanket apply 9lbs boost to all spits and hurricanes because 1/4 of the fuel used by the entire RaF was 100 octane?

all i'm saying is if there is 100 octane gifted to the brits i want C3 fuel in my E3(4/7)/N as i can dig up as much evidence that it was in fact used by some JGs as anyone has shown me for the RaF.

[TheGrunch]

A quarter of all RAF fuel consumption and the capability of every fighter to use this fuel adds up to a lot of fighter sorties. I'm not suggesting it be a blanket application, but it certainly ought to be an option.

By comparison the number of /N model 109s was positively measly. 20 E-4/Ns, am I right?

What's the comparison you are trying to make here? 10,000 tons of fuel is a lot however you look at it.

How many E-7/Ns saw service during the battle?

Anyway, go and make another thread if you feel C3 fuel should be modelled, this thread wasn't about Red vs. Blue. I do question why you consider 27% of all RAF fuel consumption to be insignificant, though. Perhaps you think that Bomber Command and Coastal Command used 100 octane? Or stopped operations entirely during the Battle (they didn't)? That's the only way that 27% of all RAF fuel consumption being 100 octane could not be interpreted as a significant proportion of Fighter Command using the fuel.

[madrebel]

i'm saying 1/4 use doesn't justify making all spits and hurris run at 9lbs of boost especially with no specifics. how much of that high grade fuel was used by PR spitfires? how much if any was used by bomber command? how much was used in hurricanes? how much in spits?

i dont have a number for 601N equipped 109s. i know is they first started showing up in late september in Es iirc with a handful of F1s showing up in october/november. all the Fs had 601ns.

the argument is just as valid as the raf argument. the significant majority of raf flights used 87 octane same as the germans. if you're going to give a minority fit for the raf give it to the germans too.

[IvanK]

"all i'm saying is if there is 100 octane gifted to the brits i want C3 fuel in my E3(4/7)/N as i can dig up as much evidence that it was in fact used by some JGs as anyone has shown me for the RaF. "

Ok start digging and put it up here so we can all learn and benefit.

[winny]

It's my understanding that a conversion was needed to the engine to enable it to run on 100 octane. They even painted little '100' s on the engine cowling so that 87 wasn't put in by mistake. By May 1940 all Hurricane, Spitfire and Defiant Sqaudrons had been converted.

Here's what Jeffrey Quill said about 100 octane.

"It was only shortly before the Battle of Britain that we changed over to 100 octane. It had the effect of increasing the combat rating of the Merlin from 3000 rpm at 6 1/2 lb boost (Merlin III) or 9 lb boost (Merlin XII) to 3,000 rpm at 12 lb boost. This, of course, had a significant effect upon the rate of climb, particularly as the constant speed propellers (also introduced just before the battle) ensured that 3,000 rpm was obtainable from the ground upwards whereas previously it was restricted by the two-pitch propellers. It also had an effect upon the maximum speed but this was not so significant as the effect upon rate of climb."

Have no idea what this means for CoD though..

[JG14_Jagr]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

A quarter of all RAF fuel consumption and the capability of every fighter to use this fuel adds up to a lot of fighter sorties. I'm not suggesting it be a blanket application, but it certainly ought to be an option.

For now, model the basics, the most common lunch pail aircraft that were the yeoman.. we can model the 15th variation that had 4 produced and saw service for 3 hours before the battle officially ended later..

Everyone always starts screaming because they want the highest performing variant and every advantage.. The game is 72 hours old and there are many more issues to deal with before this becomes the priority.. at this point we don't even have accurate means to analyse the data and speeds.. going by Altimeters and Speedometers that are nothing more than a graphical portion of a GUI isn't wise..

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by JG14_Jagr

For now, model the basics, the most common lunch pail aircraft that were the yeoman.. we can model the 15th variation that had 4 produced and saw service for 3 hours before the battle officially ended later..

Oh, I give up if that's the sense of proportion that people have. Apparently just over a quarter of all RAF fuel consumption being 100 octane from July-August (which means Fighter Command 10, 11, 12 and 13 Groups, all of Bomber Command and all of Coastal Command) no longer even leads to the conservative conclusion that the approximately 20 squadrons at a time stationed in 11 Group Fighter Command stations used it *at least*. Not like that's important since they're the stations that nearly all of the missions shipped with the game are concerned with of course.

Probably bombers and the handful of PRU Spitfires used it all. That would be totally logical during the defense against a large-scale bombing campaign. Oh, hell, in fact they probably filled up Sunderlands with it. Also, apparently widespread usage = the 15th variation that had 4 produced and saw service for 3 hours before the battle officially ended later.

I'm already confused enough about why we don't have a 109 E-1 and E-4, and why the 110C-4 doesn't use the FF/M, and why certain RAF aircraft that should don't appear to have CSUs, at the moment we basically have a Battle of France simulator without the fixed wooden props on some RAF aircraft, but now people are getting weird about something that should definitely be modelled in RAF aircraft in exactly the same way as any of the other features above.

[Reaper leader]

Tuck claimed he used +12 LBS as early as in May over Dunkirk !

They are biasing out the game again, twisting history to make this a game and not a sim, sad !

Regards

[DC338]

Lets look at consumption: 10,000 tons of 100 octane spirit used per month in june and august.

10,000 tons = 10,160,000 Kilograms of Spirit due imperial tons.

Hawker Hurricane fuel Capacity 441 L = Approx 320 kg of fuel (SG of 0.72) I used the hurri becasue it carries 60L more than Spitfire.

So 10,000 tons of would provide 31750 full tanks of fuel for a hurricane. That would account for 1040 full tanks per day for hurricane for the 61 days of june and august. Make your own mind up if it is enough. I think it is enough to provide all front line fighter squadrons involved with 100 octane.