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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

View Poll Results: Steam poll
Yes I have and like using Steam 256 54.47%
Yes I have and dont like using Steam 67 14.26%
No I do not have Steam but will for CoD 52 11.06%
No I do not have Steam and will not for CoD 95 20.21%
Voters: 470. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:22 PM
Revvin Revvin is offline
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I've not really seen any good reason not to have Steam. Those against it will cite problems they had years ago with the service or some mysterious unnamed friend who installed Steam which then took over their PC and turned it into a devil worshipping silicon monster that ate their hamster.

Steam has evolved, its improved as most systems do. As someone who has used it since it first came into being because you had to install it for Half-Life 2 I've seen the many changes. It has been sometimes a little annoying. I recall buying a game a few years ago on CD that required Steam but instead of installing from disc it downloaded the whole game from the Steam server - not much fun waiting. Its improved though, recent games including one I installed today - Total War: Shogun 2 installed from the disc into Steam and it was flawless.

PC's are complicated things and you could try to devise the most foolproof system in history but you will never engineer out the rank stupidity of some portions of the human race. People have issues with Windows year on year with each new version and yet here we are still using it. You could argue its forced on us. Some people will have problems just installing IL-2:CoD in the first place but that’s not to say its a bad product. Steam gets some bad press for decisions made by the publishers and developers themselves. I recall someone making a point about ARMA II (may have been another game) having to download huge patches and not incremental ones yet most games on Steam do download small incremental patches, Steam distributes whatever the publishers or developers give to them to distribute so to me that an unfair criticism.

From the naysayers I see lots of angry bold type and caps-lock rants about having the right to this, that and the other. Read most EULA's and you'll see you only own the media the software is presented on with a non exclusive license for the software that may be revoked at any time. Steam does not ban or removed access to the system for no good reason. If it did it would not have the support of the biggest publishers in the gaming business and certainly would not have grown into the main digital distribution network it is with millions upon millions of satisfied customers.

People assume that the posters here saying they will not buy the game is already money lost to 1C. They will try to demonstrate this with maths based on figures pulled out of thin air. The reality is that Steam will draw new customers in too, perhaps even replacing the naysayers and more. Again some assume that those who say they won't buy will stick to that though even the most ardent boycotts have broken down with groups against Call of Duty and Left 4 Dead 2 saw many of its members playing those games on or after the day of release.

The benefit is quite clear. An online community under one roof. A system where you don't need to rely on support and updates to a a number of third party clients like Hyperlobby or XFire for example. Groups are already forming in the Steam community groups section to support this new game and I can see where people are playing if I want to join them. If I want privacy I simply sign out of the friends system or choose not to have it log me in when I start up Steam.

There is far too much name calling, people trotting out the tired old fanboy insult or suggesting those who like using Steam and are trying to put forward their happy experience with the system as being 'shills' and somehow being invested in the Steam service. Insults like that and calling Steam a virus really don't help give a balanced view.
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:31 PM
zauii zauii is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
I've not really seen any good reason not to have Steam. Those against it will cite problems they had years ago with the service or some mysterious unnamed friend who installed Steam which then took over their PC and turned it into a devil worshipping silicon monster that ate their hamster.

Steam has evolved, its improved as most systems do. As someone who has used it since it first came into being because you had to install it for Half-Life 2 I've seen the many changes. It has been sometimes a little annoying. I recall buying a game a few years ago on CD that required Steam but instead of installing from disc it downloaded the whole game from the Steam server - not much fun waiting. Its improved though, recent games including one I installed today - Total War: Shogun 2 installed from the disc into Steam and it was flawless.

PC's are complicated things and you could try to devise the most foolproof system in history but you will never engineer out the rank stupidity of some portions of the human race. People have issues with Windows year on year with each new version and yet here we are still using it. You could argue its forced on us. Some people will have problems just installing IL-2:CoD in the first place but that’s not to say its a bad product. Steam gets some bad press for decisions made by the publishers and developers themselves. I recall someone making a point about ARMA II (may have been another game) having to download huge patches and not incremental ones yet most games on Steam do download small incremental patches, Steam distributes whatever the publishers or developers give to them to distribute so to me that an unfair criticism.

From the naysayers I see lots of angry bold type and caps-lock rants about having the right to this, that and the other. Read most EULA's and you'll see you only own the media the software is presented on with a non exclusive license for the software that may be revoked at any time. Steam does not ban or removed access to the system for no good reason. If it did it would not have the support of the biggest publishers in the gaming business and certainly would not have grown into the main digital distribution network it is with millions upon millions of satisfied customers.

People assume that the posters here saying they will not buy the game is already money lost to 1C. They will try to demonstrate this with maths based on figures pulled out of thin air. The reality is that Steam will draw new customers in too, perhaps even replacing the naysayers and more. Again some assume that those who say they won't buy will stick to that though even the most ardent boycotts have broken down with groups against Call of Duty and Left 4 Dead 2 saw many of its members playing those games on or after the day of release.

The benefit is quite clear. An online community under one roof. A system where you don't need to rely on support and updates to a a number of third party clients like Hyperlobby or XFire for example. Groups are already forming in the Steam community groups section to support this new game and I can see where people are playing if I want to join them. If I want privacy I simply sign out of the friends system or choose not to have it log me in when I start up Steam.

There is far too much name calling, people trotting out the tired old fanboy insult or suggesting those who like using Steam and are trying to put forward their happy experience with the system as being 'shills' and somehow being invested in the Steam service. Insults like that and calling Steam a virus really don't help give a balanced view.
Agree, well said.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2011, 06:04 PM
I/ZG52_HaDeS I/ZG52_HaDeS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
People assume that the posters here saying they will not buy the game is already money lost to 1C.
In this WWII Combat Simulator marked it IS loss. CoD is NOT Arma.

And this is entertaining of yours. First you write:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
They will try to demonstrate this with maths based on figures pulled out of thin air.
And then:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
The reality is that Steam will draw new customers in too, perhaps even replacing the naysayers and more.
I assume yours are based in "careful, scientific calculation", LoL


Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
Again some assume that those who say they won't buy will stick to that though even the most ardent boycotts have broken down with groups against Call of Duty and Left 4 Dead 2 saw many of its members playing those games on or after the day of release.
Again, don't confuse CoD/IL2 with Call of Duty or Left 4 Dead 2. They are completely different markets with completely different characteristics like players age.

And this is the most entertaining of yours:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
A system where you don't need to rely on support and updates to a a number of third party clients like Hyperlobby or XFire for example.
STEAM IS a Third-Party Software having nothing to do with the Game itself. Perhaps you should check your dictionary as you sound pretty ignorant to say the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvin View Post
Insults like that and calling Steam a virus really don't help give a balanced view.
Agreed on that. STEAM IS Much More than a VIRUS.

P.S.
And to quote a friend of mine:
Quote:
Sometimes people lose their freedoms quickly (Blitzkrieg)
More often, people lose their freedoms like a Cancer death. It happens bit by bit and they don't even realize what's going on until it's too late.
Informative links, worth to read:

"Trusted Computing"
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

Anti-DRM:
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

Free Software Society:
http://shop.fsf.org/product/free-sof...ree-society-2/

Electronic Frontier:
http://www.eff.org/about

The Sony-BMG Rootkit Fiasco:
http://www.eff.org/cases/sony-bmg-litigation-info

Public Knowledge:

http://www.publicknowledge.org/
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  #4  
Old 03-15-2011, 06:07 PM
kimosabi kimosabi is offline
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Multi quote King!
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2011, 06:07 PM
Vevster Vevster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS View Post
In this WWII Combat Simulator marked it IS loss. CoD is NOT Arma.

Not necessarily, I know someone on this forum who most probably voted that he would not order the game in this poll, and seems to have ordered 2 copies (at least one for sure, since he did not cancel the order I placed for him )
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2011, 06:37 PM
zauii zauii is offline
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Location: Sweden
Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS View Post
In this WWII Combat Simulator marked it IS loss. CoD is NOT Arma.

And this is entertaining of yours. First you write:


And then:


I assume yours are based in "careful, scientific calculation", LoL




Again, don't confuse CoD/IL2 with Call of Duty or Left 4 Dead 2. They are completely different markets with completely different characteristics like players age.

And this is the most entertaining of yours:


STEAM IS a Third-Party Software having nothing to do with the Game itself. Perhaps you should check your dictionary as you sound pretty ignorant to say the least.



Agreed on that. STEAM IS Much More than a VIRUS.

P.S.
And to quote a friend of mine:


Informative links, worth to read:

"Trusted Computing"
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

Anti-DRM:
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/

Free Software Society:
http://shop.fsf.org/product/free-sof...ree-society-2/

Electronic Frontier:
http://www.eff.org/about

The Sony-BMG Rootkit Fiasco:
http://www.eff.org/cases/sony-bmg-litigation-info

Public Knowledge:

http://www.publicknowledge.org/
Monopoly on the pc, really? Pretty impossible tbh since it's an open platform(Microsoft tried and failed, one example was trying to prevent anyone from using another Web browser), anyone can start a rival service at any time and offer a better user experience yet devs, and users stick to Steam and i wonder why? Oh wait could it be because, its not a virus and the user experience / service is great.. yup. The consoles on the other hand is a different story, were everything goes via MS,Sony as a developer & player you've no choice to being with.

Last edited by zauii; 03-15-2011 at 06:45 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:02 PM
Cobra8472 Cobra8472 is offline
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I seriously cannot fathom that some people here are actually against Steam.

Considering it is one of the finest digital distribution platforms in the world, and most of the initial problems have been ironed out, you'd think you lot were actually willing to accept that it is the perfect technology for CoD.

Do you really think it is a coincidence that every single semi-major PC release today is distributed and marketed, primarily through Steam?

Stop being such little crybabies, buy the game, and enjoy the service Steam will provide.
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:16 PM
trumps trumps is offline
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steam works for me

i heard that steam was run by Galen Thurber, and a team of oompalumpa Galen clones
tis the devil i tell you LOL

Craig
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:25 PM
I/ZG52_HaDeS I/ZG52_HaDeS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra8472 View Post
I seriously cannot fathom that some people here buy the game, and enjoy the service Steam will provide.
I won't, and i am mature enough to keep my word. Be sure that 1000s will use "other alternatives".
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2011, 09:14 PM
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Extreme_One Extreme_One is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I/ZG52_HaDeS View Post
I won't, and i am mature enough to keep my word. Be sure that 1000s will use "other alternatives".
Oh terrific another that decides the "other alternatives" are better than installing a piece of software that currently has literally millions of satisfied users.
So much so that every major publisher, pushing every major release, realises that Steam is the best way to market their game; for the good of all PC gamers.

Honestly I truly believe (and I'm not alone) that without Steam pushing hard to keep PC gaming where it is today, we would all be forced to buy a damn console if we wanted to continue with our hobby.

Won't it be great when we're all using "other alternatives" for all of the old games that were released on PC and there are no new games because all of the publishers have decided that because of all the "other alternatives" there's no point in publishing games for PC any more.

Seriously, some people need to wake up and realise that PC gaming will die unless there are more ways to STOP piracy, ensure that publishers actually make a return on their investments, make sure that games developers can continue doing what they do best without their hard work being distributed through "other alternatives"



And instead of discussing all of the things that Steam can do for PC gaming, people moan when they realise they can't have things nice and simple, just the way they like, just like the good old days, sod what the publishers need.

Games publishing is a business, the publishers need to ensure they get a decent return on their investment, otherwise it's not economically viable for them to continue.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that something like Steam HAD TO HAPPEN to keep PC gaming viable?

All those whining that Steam shouldn't be necessary consider this:
There are alternatives to using Windows as an operating system; do you choose to use Linux instead, or MAC OSX? Oh, but if you don't run Windows you can't run CloD.
So shouldn't 1C and UBI be slated for not offering the game on alternative operating systems?

Last edited by Extreme_One; 03-15-2011 at 09:35 PM.
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