Shame on you for using STEAM !

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, i prefaced everything with a clear enough "i don't mind as long as". It's not like i'm claiming facts that Steam is a certain way, i'm just saying what i don't like IF it's a certain way

On this particular matter however

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

As for the backing up thing being a pita I agree, but at the same time if the game does exclusively use the Steam MP platform then the need for backups would be moot anyway. I honestly don't know why someone would be a huge advocate of running older buggier versions of software other than the very few instances that a patch makes a game less playable than it was before.

there are many reasons to keep running an older version. Usually, dedicated servers take some time to catch up with the latest version. If they too update via Steam then this won't be an issue.

Another reason is mods. I still don't have 4.10 because i knew that the mod pack i use would have to wait for the 4.101 hotfix first before releasing a new mod pack version that's compatible with it. This will depend on how mods will be handled in CoD.

Finally, it's not uncommon to have a patch introduce new bugs along with fixes to older ones. I want to have some control over what version i'm using for this exact reason, sometimes the new bugs can be worse than old ones so i skip an update until everything is sorted out.

This has been an issue for some RoF players as well, because with every few updates the system requirements are going uphill a notch. Some people have computers that are perfectly capable of running it in the state it was 3-4 patches back, but they don't have the option to rollback because the updates are forced. Well, anything that shuts a legitimate buyer out is bad as a matter of principle, plus it's one more reason to prefer a pirated copy for many people. I've used cracks on a few games i bought just for that reason, the cracked one worked better than the stock one and this is just absurd no matter how we look at it.

As for the rest of your post, i appreciate your explanation on how steam actually works. If i can install on the drive of my choice and have the ability to update manually (as someone else stated is possible) then it's a big reassurance.

I'm not anti-Steam as a principle, i just don't want unnecessary layers of complexity interfering with my gaming. I mostly fly offline and only use a couple of servers when going online, flying with a small set of people. In that sense the fringe benefits of Steam integration are completely useless to me. I'm not saying it shouldn't be there because it's useless to me, since it is clearly useful to others. However, i appreciate not having someone's software set-up preferences forced on me just like i'm not keen on forcing my own on others. Introducing a lot of features and making them optional is what works best in the long run for everyone involved.

[tintifaxl]

Originally Posted by meshuggahs

...
Besides the steam anticheat (VAC?) is more than wellcome.

VAC is a toothless old dog, that can't bite any of the cheaters. Look at CS:S or COD. Absolutely useless.

[Revvin]

Yes I can sympathise about the RoF system requirements suddenly ramping up. About a year or o ago I bought RoF and on my old dual core system with 2GB ram it just about ran with just me and a computer pilot dogfighting. I was ok with that because I took a chance on buying it then knowing I'd upgrade anyway at some point (though circumstances meant that upgrade got delayed a year). So quite happily I'd hone my 1 on 1 dogfighting skills waiting for the day I'd upgrade. It was fun doing that but then a patch went live and suddenly my little 1 vs 1 ground my PC to a halt. I was into very low single digit FPS and the game was unplayable. Since then I've upgraded so I can play again but appreciate how patches can impact performance.

That said you can chose to not update a game via Steam, its just a quite right click on the game and selecting its properties and select not to automatically keep up to date. I think though with 1C's track record we're safe from any game killing patches. I hope that those cautious about Steam will perhaps find as many of us did that its not something to be cautious about but in fact something I'm happy to see when developers use the Steamworks system.

[tintifaxl]

Another thing regarding Steam: if the decision to use the steam libraries wasn't made a few weeks ago, I don't think we will see a release on the 25th with working multiplayer. Integrating a framework this far down the development process will take some time.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by Dano

Steam does not force you to patch, there is an option on every game to set it to manual not automatic updates.

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

[kashwashwa]

Originally Posted by Vyper

Steam is a virus...

Playing ARMA2 CO is a perfect example of why I won't deal with steam. I can run the game without a hitch, and make choices for myself. Squad members who bought it via steam are forced to take patches the DAY the are released on steam, regardless of settings, keeping them off the server...just as one example. I won't go into the nightmare that is encountered if they want to run mods like ACE2 for example.

Please do go into the nightmare that is encountered.

I have every piece of DLC for the game, I've installed all of the mods I want (Even ACE2!), I play online with several different groups of people and I have never had an issue because the game is on steam.

[zauii]

Nothing wrong with the service at all, been a happy customer since the beginning with minor issues. This should give the sim great publicity, besides most steam related issue can be traced back to the users, aka not steams fault.

Originally Posted by Vyper

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

Bullshit, steam and mods work perfectly. Some good examples would be Counterstrike, Ro, Half Life , seriously half of the folks around here dissing steam havnt even tried it or doesn't know how to use it.. pathetic.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by kashwashwa

Please do go into the nightmare that is encountered.

I have every piece of DLC for the game, I've installed all of the mods I want (Even ACE2!), I play online with several different groups of people and I have never had an issue because the game is on steam.

You don't think changing your batch file in some remote call is a headache? Perhaps your computer skills are much higher than the average person. I have walked through arma2 steam issues with people enough to know I won't do it anymore (one of the steam guys handles all the issues with steam users now). I never said it won't work...what I said was it is not easy to make it work. PITA is a term that comes to mind.

I don't care. I rent a small arma server for our squad. This last 6 months has seen a number of patches released...and I could control when I put a patch up on the server...but the steam guys always forced the issue or couldn't play because of they are controlled by valve.

All that said...its a choice. Which I like. because I choose not to have steam installed to I can be part of data collection for marketing and a simpler operation overall without 3rd party crap. When the choice is removed, thats what I have issue with.

[Vyper]

Originally Posted by zauii

Bullshit, steam and mods work perfectly. Some good examples would be Counterstrike, Ro, Half Life , seriously half of the folks around here dissing steam havnt even tried it or doesn't know how to use it.. pathetic.

Nice.

[Revvin]

Originally Posted by Vyper

Which does not work at all with Arma2/Arma2 OA whether you have those options selected or not. It forces you to patch. And you don't get a patch...you get the entire patched game re-downloaded to your HD. Fun for those guys that chose valve instead of hardcopy.

I don't care whether it is offered on steam for those who prefer it that way. I am hugely against FORCING EVERYONE to use steam to play multiplayer. I will not have it back on a system I own.

Did it not occur to you that its the developer at fault and not Steam? Other games download small patches and update, Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty games etc.