4.101 RC - List of fixes

[PE_Tihi]

I see no significant change in the Spit FM, which is still quite unstable.

So what happened to the much advertised change?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

I see no significant change in the Spit FM, which is still quite unstable.

So what happened to the much advertised change?

I only saw one person say that the Spitfire FM changed but I never heard it from anyone from the TD team. Not sure who advertised it but through 4.10 and 4.10.1 it was the same.

I thought subjectively that it was a little more stable in 4.10.1 release but maybe not.

[PE_Tihi]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I only saw one person say that the Spitfire FM changed but I never heard it from anyone from the TD team. Not sure who advertised it but through 4.10 and 4.10.1 it was the same.

I thought subjectively that it was a little more stable in 4.10.1 release but maybe not.

I started a thread ( 'Spitfire sabotaged, Goering relieved') here recently, which got closed after half a day only. Asking about the reasons, the moderator told me, among other things ' The thread has served its purpose the Spit fix is in v4.101'

[PE_Tihi]

The Spitfire's is the first of Oleg's FM's that he allowed TD to modify extensively. I wish they could' ve started with some other, and not with the most famous plane. Any plane's FM should be good enough to play with.
If 1C doesn't care, the game being more or less history already, why should we. Still, it s ugly.

[Fenrir]

Because Tihi, you don't know what you are talking about and someone threw you a bone to shut you up.

I'm a Spit flyer. So no lufty bias here.

What was fixed in 4.101 was an aileron trim issue, nothing to do with stability.

As for your perceived instability - I've been flying the 4.10 & 4.101 spits for a month now, I see a very low trim elevator neutral trim speed, which I find questionable (but having been shown the source of that by TD I cannot argue because I have no data with which to counter) but there is NO behavior AT ALL which indicates pitch instability. The a/c does NOT tighten up in turns, does NOT hunt whilst flying straight and level and can be trimmed quite easily to fly hands off.

As the aerodynamically understood principles of instability go the 4.10/4.101 Spits are paragons of stable aircraft.

If however you are referring to the adverse yaw, this has been discussed. Try applying a little rudder with the direction of aileron - this is called a coordinated turn - and your problem should go away; after some practice, naturally.

[PE_Tihi]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Because Tihi, you don't know what you are talking about and someone threw you a bone to shut you up.

I'm a Spit flyer. So no lufty bias here.

What was fixed in 4.101 was an aileron trim issue, nothing to do with stability.

As for your perceived instability - I've been flying the 4.10 & 4.101 spits for a month now, I see a very low trim elevator neutral trim speed, which I find questionable (but having been shown the source of that by TD I cannot argue because I have no data with which to counter) but there is NO behavior AT ALL which indicates pitch instability. The a/c does NOT tighten up in turns, does NOT hunt whilst flying straight and level and can be trimmed quite easily to fly hands off.

As the aerodynamically understood principles of instability go the 4.10/4.101 Spits are paragons of stable aircraft.

If however you are referring to the adverse yaw, this has been discussed. Try applying a little rudder with the direction of aileron - this is called a coordinated turn - and your problem should go away; after some practice, naturally.

And you seem very sure you know what you are talking about? I studied aerodynamics, you know. Did you, or did the guy who threw me a bone, as you say?

I really wrote more then enough here, but let me recapitulate shortly:

If the rudder or some other control is moved energetically to push the nose down in a stall climb, this causes slow ( ~ 0,7 Hz) and very strong pitch oscillations, (amplitude like 45 deg or more relative to the flightpath direction). They do not get damped to sufferable level before plane reaches something like 200 kmh in the dive. No other plane in the game behaves nearly so wild.

As for the reasons why your Spit pitches up the nose wildly, almost certainly the reason is TD moving the CG backwards. CG position is the MAIN pitch stability factor. That s why the above happens. And I wrote that already here, a page or so back. Take a look at the picture there.

The effects are most obvious in slow flight, near stall; and still strong enough at combat speeds to spoil the aim. And the plane is instable laterally, too.
If you cannot see anything of the above in flight, I cannot help you further.

What they sold you as a reason for the planes bad pitch trim, I do not know. After seeing their FM work here, I do not care, either.

[JtD]

From last three pages:

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

I do not know...

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

I do not know...

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

I do not know...

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

I do not know...

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

I do not know...

That's exactly the message I'm getting. I think you should follow your own advice.

Originally Posted by PE_Tihi

am sure anyone googles it out in 5 minutes

[PE_Tihi]

Originally Posted by JtD

From last three pages:





That's exactly the message I'm getting. I think you should follow your own advice.

That may not be your case, but there are things I do not know, you know
Fenrir above knows, just like you do, I do not even know what a coordinated turn is
What should I do after flying the game 9 years, some 3-4 of them with pedals, but laugh LOL!

Sorry, guys, but I am really wasting my time here on some of you, am I not?

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Because Tihi, you don't know what you are talking about and someone threw you a bone to shut you up.

I'm a Spit flyer. So no lufty bias here.

What was fixed in 4.101 was an aileron trim issue, nothing to do with stability.

As for your perceived instability - I've been flying the 4.10 & 4.101 spits for a month now, I see a very low trim elevator neutral trim speed, which I find questionable (but having been shown the source of that by TD I cannot argue because I have no data with which to counter) but there is NO behavior AT ALL which indicates pitch instability. The a/c does NOT tighten up in turns, does NOT hunt whilst flying straight and level and can be trimmed quite easily to fly hands off.

As the aerodynamically understood principles of instability go the 4.10/4.101 Spits are paragons of stable aircraft.

If however you are referring to the adverse yaw, this has been discussed. Try applying a little rudder with the direction of aileron - this is called a coordinated turn - and your problem should go away; after some practice, naturally.

the nose up tendency does seem rather exaggerated, wasn't it something to do with maximum cruise economy rather than combat cruise speed being used as the elevator trim neutral point?

[JtD]

No, that was aileron trim, and it has been changed.