Dot Visibility in COD and Other Flight ims.

[Qpassa]

I play at 1920x1200 , AAx4 and I have not any problems looking for bandits

[Foo'bar]

Originally Posted by Qpassa

I play at 1920x1200 , AAx4 and I have not any problems looking for bandits

Same here. Samsung SM 2443

[Qpassa]

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

Same here. Samsung SM 2443

lol I have the same screen, bought in pixmania
I'm sorry about that Gromic

[KG26_Alpha]

I've seen screen shots from a particular online-war pilot, aircraft looked like a flying bricks.

These guys are into stats mungering.

800x600 turn off all details no buildings etc etc

You see aircraft from way out and all ground targets are easy to see as there's no scenery buildings just flat terrain till you are almost on top of it, quite sad but they are interested only in points and their stats, what the sim/game looks like is of no consequence to them.

[fruitbat]

i play at 1920 by 1200 with the aa cranked up to 16xQ, on a samsung 24inch monitor

maybe i can't see dots as well below me, but i never seem to have that much problem seeing them, and for what advantage i loose, i'm more than happy to have the eye candy.

i think i would throw up playing it in 1024x768.

[Flanker35M]

S!

I play at 1920x1200 and have some difficulties spotting planes at times. Especially when they approach and go near the horizon, kind of disappear before appearing again. I hope the dot issue is better handled in CoD..we are not playing with small screens anymore

[The Kraken]

I have a hard time imagining people playing on medieval resolutions just to be more "competitive". What's next, wallhacks? Aimbots? Pink default skins for the enemy plains?

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

i play at 1920 by 1200 with the aa cranked up to 16xQ, on a samsung 24inch monitor

maybe i can't see dots as well below me, but i never seem to have that much problem seeing them, and for what advantage i loose, i'm more than happy to have the eye candy.

i think i would throw up playing it in 1024x768.

1024X768 looks very good with 4X AA and 8X or higher AF. Plus you get much better FPS with the lower res.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Foo'bar

Same here. Samsung SM 2443

foo'bar,

i looked up your monitor model, it is indeed again a 6 bit monitor (see http://www.prad.de/en/index.html ). given how much you know about grafix and video and your liking of il2, and since you use programs like photoshop etc (?) i am a bit surprised you were not aware of that when you selected your monitor.

as you probably know "eight bits" also allows 256 shades of grey. The human eye can discern about 85 intensity levels on a good monitor (high dynamic range, which means the black is very black and the white is very bright). these extensive "steps" in grey levels allows a very smooth transition in black/greys and offers much better detail when viewing video and grafix

when lower end displays are only 6 bit, the shades of colors available to try and accurately depict the exact shade of color it needs to display is significantly reduced, and they will use "dithering" to approximate the color or grey tone as much as possible. this is a process by which computers approximate the display of colors in an image that are not available, and this is achieved by varying the patterns of dots that make up the image. like this



now if this is for a static image being displayed in printed media for example, it might not matter that much because the blended dot of black and white are displayed a static snapshot, and they very small and the detail might be hard to see with the naked eye when reading a paper or looking at a photo.



but if the grey/black dot is moving while this dithering is continuously occurring and you have a process like dynamic dithering which is constantly changing (because it cant seem to make up its mind what shade of brey/black to display), then suddenly it makes these dots stand out much more. the 2 images below illustrate the effect that enhances "dot visibility" for 6 bit monitor users in the il2 flightsim series.


in the above picture note the smaller square in the bottom right corner, giving a zoomed and enhanced view of what produces the "glittering" effect (as dithering artifact)


this 2e illustration shows a slightly different 6 bit dithering technology used on some other monitor pannels, but the overall effect produces a similar result


and that is the most likely explanation why people with 6 bit lcd monitors consistently keep reporting much better dot spotting in il2, it is a case of the cheaper and nastier the monitor the more clearly you can see the dot's because of the artifacts the 6 bit display causes when you have a little 4 pixel block of dithering grey sliding over a static green/brown/white/blue background. it is only after over the years noticing that people with 6 bit monitors had significantly less problems with dot spotting that this technological issue about dithering was identified as a likely explanation. when previously polls were done to see who could see dots the best, the 6 bit monitor issue was the most common denominator (presuming all monitors are correctly calibrated, viewers look at the same scenery and object, etc..).the above is a very simplified explanation for a complex issue, and it is further complicated by a varied range in technologies used in modern panels, and the fact some brands use misleading advertising and labeling their products (or dont disclose when a panel in a particular model changes).

note: for those interested in finding out what technology their own monitor uses, most manufacturers dont advertise the tech details very openly (partic for the lower end models) . a good site like http://www.prad.de/en/index.html will have most of the required detail listed for many models. the below table gives a rough idea of different technologies and if it is 6 or 8 bit, it helps to describe what we are seeing from most modern panels:

All TN Film panels = Dithering. Some are 6-bit with FRC, some are 6-bit extended to 9-bit and figure as 8-bit in the specs (or 16.7 million colours). More modern panels seem to be the latter, look for "16.7 million colours" quoted in specs.
PVA Traditional = 8-Bit
PVA + Overdrive = Dithering, 6-Bit +FRC
S-PVA + Overdrive = Still real 8-bit
MVA Traditional = 8-Bit
19" and below MVA + Overdrive = dithering, but not as obvious as with PVA + Overdrive
>19" MVA + Overdrive = real 8-bit
S-IPS Traditional = 8-Bit
New S-IPS panels + Overdrive = No obvious issues
AS-IPS = 8 bit, not heard any reports of colour issues on these

for those who want a simple quick test to see in living color how good/bad their monitor is in this 6/8 bit debate, look for the "color gradient test" (a little exe) from this website. the article itself also explains this complex issue a little more, and is one of the better one available. http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles.../6bit_8bit.htm . anybody using a 6 bit monitor will see significant banding, while most 8 bit monitor users wont.

[kendo65]

I use a Samsung 22-inch LCD with a tn panel. Been aware of the 6-bit issue for some time (but unfortunately not before buying the Samsung). Does anyone know if the banding that is visible on sea and sky when running il-2 on nVidia graphics has anything to do with 6-bit panels? Was puzzled by it - as i was running 32-bit colour, never could understand it and put it down to some nVidia glitch?

I've been noticing some of the new cheaper ips panels that are starting to come on the market. Was also keeping an eye on the progression of 120Hz technology but it seems to be painfully slow. Are current ips response times able to run games (flightsims in particular) without noticeable smearing or other effects?

Also read something recently about what could be the Holy Grail - ips panels with 120hz refesh rate.