Tactics for Cliffs of Dover.

[Doogerie]

the rAF Pilots used to get in as close as possabel to the LUftwafa and then let rip with thee gun's so thats what i will do

[VO101_HWick]

Originally Posted by Icewolf

who says the spitfire outturns the 109? show me the references from 1940

I think its in Ulrich Steinhilper's book when he is talking about why the allies though the 109 couldn't turn very well. It was that the captured planes were flown in a much "gentle" way. He mentioned that turning for an experienced pilot started when the leading slots opened up with a bang which scared the living day out of the rooky pilots.

He were also talking about the way they climbed. Beginners are always lagged behind on the first few sorties until they learned how to use pitch control in manual settings. He describes the exact way of gaining more power which is valid to the IL2 109s to this day. Use manual pp to overrev a little than switch back to auto straight away before u damage your engine.
He wrote that you could hear if someone with experience flown the 109 from this constant revving.

I might be mixing the source of this, so apologies if this is the case. I will look it up later on when i have access to my books.

HWick

[SlipBall]

quote: Blackdog kt
For me, this is full difficulty servers on the real-life sized map (at least i hope there will be servers that do that regularly ), while using tactics of our own instead of Goering's ones.

In that sense, i expect that the plane to really outshine and surpass its real life counterpart will be the 110, because people will actually fly it in a way that maximizes its advantages in the sim.

They will learn to stay fast and only boom and zoom, they will either range ahead of the bombers or zig-zag above them as top cover, they will do low level bombing raids to key, pinpoint targets under the cover of radar and generally fly in a smart way.


Some well thought out idea's Blackdog, will certainly be disruptive to RAF defenses no doubt.

[Matt255]

"The RAE determined in Report No. B.A.1640 that "The minimum radius of turn without height loss at 12,000 ft., full throttle, is calculated as 885 ft. on the Me 109 compared with 696 ft. on the Spitfire."

Those are calculations with wingloading only, which would only make sense, if both planes would use the same airfoil (and if the 109 would have washout or the Spitfire wouldn't have washout). Those numbers mean nothing.

But whatever, most sources (both german and british) say, that the Spitfire turned better then 109 E. However, that's pretty much the only real advantage the Spitfire has. Both have about the same speed and climb, the outcome depends on energy and how long the pilot can use maximum power before overheating.

The 109 can climb steeper (not faster), can roll faster at low to medium speed, can dive faster, has the better armament (imo), the better forward view (makes deflection shooting easier, the Hurricane has a better forward view then the Spitfire aswell), has no problem with negative G, has a relatively harmless stall behaviour.

I think both planes will be "balanced" when modelled as realistically as possible in a PC flightsim.


And of course, when we're talking about realism here, we won't see only Spit vs. 109 E. We'll see way more Hurricanes and both the Hurricanes and Spitfires should (probably won't) take the bombers out asap. Of course there are also some 110's around to mix it up. And the Hurricane is not really that good against 109's.

[Ernst]

I guess if him even considered slats deploying. In the scientifc way i known well that sometimes one force their results, considering not all variables or considering more, to match the results. It is not wrong at all, but is at less questionable. Maybe both calculation are made most at the same way and considering the same way, this way they agreed so well. You must present the full article (conditions, variables considered) for better understading.

[DKoor]

So you guys really dug up on the 50-60min sorties... great.
I mean all this not-enough-fuel fixations, RAF being in disadvantage with full tanks etc.

About Luftwaffe being in any kind of advantage in this sim... believe me the only advantageous position as I see it is that they have about 20-30mins to change your mind and RTB and save their virtual life.
Quick reality check... in "realistic" game setups, any kind of malfunction with your plane and your life is in danger quite literally... while RAF can more or less just hit CTRL+E unless they are over sea.
Plus they have enough fuel to chase Luftwaffe to France which I'm sure they will do in this game, so LW can say goodbye to their experten fuel management.
Even if Luftwaffe turn back to RAF chasers shot them all down and win they will still probably end up in drink (and most likely die).

Note I'm not saying anything on some big scale tactics I am just talking about micro scenarios that will happen to you on "daily" basis.

In short, I can't wait for this sim to hit the shelves to actually see how many of you elated forumites will still fly after one month of playing such "joyful" scenarios.

[Abbeville-Boy]

Originally Posted by DKoor

So you guys really dug up on the 50-60min sorties... great.
I mean all this not-enough-fuel fixations, RAF being in disadvantage with full tanks etc.

About Luftwaffe being in any kind of advantage in this sim... believe me the only advantageous position as I see it is that they have about 20-30mins to change your mind and RTB and save their virtual life.
Quick reality check... in "realistic" game setups, any kind of malfunction with your plane and your life is in danger quite literally... while RAF can more or less just hit CTRL+E unless they are over sea.
Plus they have enough fuel to chase Luftwaffe to France which I'm sure they will do in this game, so LW can say goodbye to their experten fuel management.
Even if Luftwaffe turn back to RAF chasers shot them all down and win they will still probably end up in drink (and most likely die).

Note I'm not saying anything on some big scale tactics I am just talking about micro scenarios that will happen to you on "daily" basis.

In short, I can't wait for this sim to hit the shelves to actually see how many of you elated forumites will still fly after one month of playing such "joyful" scenarios.

so you refuse to save fuel so you can't return to base

[Wutz]

Ah he is just worried that too many will join the dark side and that the poor dweebfires will be blasted out of the sky. So they got to boost moral, like making a collectors version only for the British side. I think they fear that they are going to be over run by hundreds of Bf109s, Bf110s and He111s and Ju88s.
I can only say keep your shovels ready they are going to be a lot of potholes to fill in!

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by DKoor

So you guys really dug up on the 50-60min sorties... great.
I mean all this not-enough-fuel fixations, RAF being in disadvantage with full tanks etc.

What will ACTUALLY happen with the online 3D-AIR-HALO point whore brigade is they will meet up mid channel and there will be a gigantic WWI style furball 10km off the coast of Dover

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

What will ACTUALLY happen with the online 3D-AIR-HALO point whore brigade is they will meet up mid channel and there will be a gigantic WWI style furball 10km off the coast of Dover

Bingo!

And you know... if that makes people happy there is no reason to rain on their parade. Everyone has different likes.