Tactics for Cliffs of Dover.

[lane]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

OK Chaps, assuming (I know, I know...) that the FMs in Cliffs of Dover are fairly true to historical data, the BF 109E and the Spitfire will be fairly evenly matched up to 16,000 ft. Above that altitude the Spitfire starts pulling ahead of the Messer in terms of speed, and at 20.000ft the Spitfire has a decided advantage.

So what this tells us is that we will have to get high and stay high to be successful in the Spitfire. We also must assume that Jerry will not fly historically, but will pretend it's 1944. So, they will not stay with the bombers, they will not engage in low level turn fights, and in short they will be the buzz killers we know them to be.

Hmm, I think that both Spits and Hurricanes match up best against the 109 below say about 10,000' where they have a fairly significant power advantage. Check: Hurricane Mk I Performance and Spitfire Mk. I versus Me 109 E, A Performance Comparison. That said an altitude advantage going into a fight is certainly desirable.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing

I really love all of this talk about realism... The simple fact remains we fly with virtual lives. Do you think anyone would engage in a fight they couldn't win? Of course not. Do we make retarded decisions because we can just hit refly if it doesn't work out. Of course we do...

I think you get my point. About the closest I've come to using real tactics is when it really counts meaning you only have 1 virtual life and no option to hit refly.

BTW reality is boring... It's always about balancing out Entertainment and Reality. After all this is a game.

I can tell you that in SEOW the pilot's life heavily counts in term campaign result (overall score); during the BoB campaign there were great fights at 7km between E4 and SpitI (with Blue's fuel limited at start).

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Sven

We tend to fly as historical as possible but I take you are talking about a regular night in a dogfight server?...
If you are looking for realism, we 5./JG27 are planning to set up a realism CoD server once it's out with historical accurate attacks, but were still in early stage of our plans, no doubt there will be others with the same plans! We hope take part in realism co-op missions once CoD is running on full power as well

So you will fly your 109s nice and slow, next to your bombers, and you'll lose large numbers when the British attack you with more energy than you have - and then the next time you fly the mission, you'll do the same thing? I doubt you'll enjoy that, even though it's historically accurate.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

So you will fly your 109s nice and slow, next to your bombers, and you'll lose large numbers when the British attack you with more energy than you have - and then the next time you fly the mission, you'll do the same thing? I doubt you'll enjoy that, even though it's historically accurate.

You don't get the bigger picture, we plan our attack set up attack routes, we don't inform the enemy where we will be, and we don't know where they will be, the only thing the Allies get is an approximate attack grid which they received from the radar stations, don't get this wrong though, the grid is quite limited and the low fuel load on the 109 doesn't allow much altering from a direct course. I do enjoy real life tactics, I want to get the close as possible WW2 experience, I'm not in for a super ace score using modern tactics and hindsight view about the WW2 and what pilots should have done, I like re-enactment, everyone's interest differ, but this is mine. Overall the Battle of Britain wasn't a turkey shoot, there was fierce battle raging on. I'm not going further into this. Ende. Lets keep this civil.

[kimosabi]

Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing

I really love all of this talk about realism... The simple fact remains we fly with virtual lives. Do you think anyone would engage in a fight they couldn't win? Of course not. Do we make retarded decisions because we can just hit refly if it doesn't work out. Of course we do...

A 12 plane Spitfire wing, three vics of four, heading directly into 100 plane bomber/fighter formations at co alt would be a "retarded" decision, yes? Even if that formation possibly had 109's in high cover as well? It happened IRL. Just to pick one example.

But yes, we do retarded things with our computers. Indeed.

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by kimosabi

I MUST get Ulrich Steinhilper's "Spitfire on my tail". I've not read a memoir from the axis side yet.

but it has not much BoB action in the book, he was shot down very early in the campaign.

[lane]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Steinhilper agrees with Wellum. The SpitfireII was to worry because the higher ceiling, not the SpitfireI.

Actually Steinhilper wrote (page 330 of my copy of his book): “The Me 109 E 4 was capable of reaching 10,000 metres (32,800 ft) with the Mk I Spitfire at a comparable 10,3363 (typo) metres(34,000 ft), but the new Mk IIs soared up to 11,340 metres (37,200 ft.) This gave a tactical advantage of 1,340 metres or 4,300 ft to the Spitfires.”

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

but it has not much BoB action in the book, he was shot down very early in the campaign.

My copy of Steinhilper’s book describes action during the Battle of Britain, especially concerning I/JG 52, in a loose diary form up to the date Steinhilper was shot down - 27 October 1940.

[Ernst]

By the way reds speak here BoB was a Turkey Shot where RAF massacrated the Luftwaffe. Poor ones the main reason RAF was not ripped from the sky was because a change in Strategy, withdrawing the pressure over the RAF, pilots and airfields to the useless bombings of London. BoB had no winners, luftwaffe just withdraw because the Operation Barbarossa was to begin. Luftwaffe crushed the RAF at Malta for two times and then withdraw because the fighters was needed in some other place. The things only changed when americans came with massive long range fighters.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

I can tell you that in SEOW the pilot's life heavily counts in term campaign result (overall score); during the BoB campaign there were great fights at 7km between E4 and SpitI (with Blue's fuel limited at start).

Sort of my point... I fly GhostSkies which is similar to SE but customized... Fly with one life and you will get more realistic tactics.

[Ernst]

The USAAF with their massive fighters and heavy bombers crushed the luftwaffe in the West.