If UBI's DRM scheme is unacceptable...

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by addman

One time activation should be "doable" for most people. Constant authentication might be a problem for some. Should that be the consensus?

err, no... it shouldn't be "the consensus".
There shouldn't be a problem with having to activate/ deactivate and authenticate.

Blackdog made some good points, but I feel hasn't hasn't taken legitimate hardware/ complete system upgrade into account. One active key for two different hardware setups would raise the flag, hence the need for a "deactivation". On re-activating (in the case of a system upgrade) would match signup information, and if legit, would give the go ahead. Similar for a partial hardware upgrade.
As well, a verification check for game patch, would determine if the file structure/ files are legit and safe to patch.

[Trumper]

If the game is sensibly priced so that the majority can afford the original version then why bother with piracy.
You will ALWAYS have those that won't pay you can't legislate for that BUT you can reduce their popularity by pricing so it's not an attractive option.
Cheesing off the majority to fight a minority is just daft.
If that happened it may encourage more people to wait a year or so to see what happens and get it cheaper in the sales when all the bugs have been ironed out.

[Avimimus]

Btw. It is worth noting that the first generations of flight sims were produced with less DRM and markets that were many times smaller. In fact, flight sims were much more popular when the markets were tiny in the 1990s.

Of course, the amount of labour required and overall fidelity was also lower (smaller budgets) - but we shouldn't pretend that the genre won't exist without invasive DRM.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

err, no... it shouldn't be "the consensus".
There shouldn't be a problem with having to authenticate.

Blackdog made some good points, but I feel hasn't hasn't taken legitimate hardware/ complete system upgrade into account. One active key for two different hardware setups would raise the flag, hence the need for a "deactivation". On re-activating (in the case of a system upgrade) would match signup information, and if legit, would give the go ahead. Similar for a partial hardware upgrade.
As well, a verification check for game patch, would determine if the file structure/ files are legit and safe to patch.

Try going to most rural or remote community in Canada - you can't even get dial-up. Just because it isn't your experience doesn't mean it is non-existent.

I'd also argue that automatic patching is anathema to flight sims. We often customise our installs very carefully (with mods, with skins or simply with setting changes). It is a really bad idea to let some exhausted staff member enter your machine and rebuild your install...

I've also had issues with the Rise of Flight forced autopatching system - not only was it incompatible with my older hardware (prior to the release of a hotfix), but system requirements have gradually climbed to the point where I can no longer run the sim.

There is this myopia that says we all have high-speed connections, we all fly online, we all have new hardware, we all buy our games, play them through twice and discard them like FPS junkies and we'd all use pirated copies if we could. None of it is true.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

Try going to most rural or remote community in Canada - you can't even get dial-up. Just because it isn't your experience doesn't mean it is non-existent.

I'd also argue that automatic patching is anathema to flight sims. We often customise our installs very carefully (with mods, with skins or simply with setting changes). It is a really bad idea to let some exhausted staff member enter your machine and rebuild your install...

I've also had issues with the Rise of Flight forced autopatching system - not only was it incompatible with my older hardware (prior to the release of a hotfix), but system requirements have gradually climbed to the point where I can no longer run the sim.

There is this myopia that says we all have high-speed connections, we all fly online, we all have new hardware, we all buy our games, play them through twice and discard them like FPS junkies and we'd all use pirated copies if we could. None of it is true.

I hate to rain on your parade there buddy, but how did you extrapolate all that from my post you quoted?

out in the rural or remote community of Canada? how do they get their email then?



@yellownet

the oignal part you probably missed was, "2. I want to be able to play the game on the go (offline)."
and the response was "Hmm, who plays a flightsim "on the go"? I sometimes bring my Nintendo DS or PSP around on trips or whatever but even those are cumbersome and especially the PSP takes a good time to load some games. So if you are on a business trip or something you actually bring your huge-*ss gaming laptop with you? You're gonna need a joystick, where do you put your HOTAS or even a "smaller" joystick? in your back pocket? They won't even fit in a small suitcase! Ok, presume you DO bring all that stuff with you on your trips, most hotels (even cheaper ones) have free Wlan."

You've done yourself a misservice with your response to that

let me ask you on your "The point being, when you buy something you should be able to use it as you see fit."; do you complain because you have to use nVidia drivers with nVidia cards, and have no option to use ATI instead... and vica versa? Or, (this bit is for Avimimus as well) with your shiny new car... that you've replaced the engine and running gear with the engine and running gear from another manufacturer and wonder why the dealer you've bought car from won't honour your shop warranty?

[KG26_Alpha]

When you buy retailed software you are not buying the software its self, just the right to use it.

The company would be mad to actually sell you their software they have spent years and hundreds of thousands/millions on for peanuts

You only own the right to use it under their terms and conditions.




.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

When you buy retailed software you are not buying the software its self, just the right to use it.

You only own the right to use it under their terms and conditions.

We do keep trying to get that across... yet something seems to go missing on the way.
Does anyone actually read the EULA, that thing you have to agree to for the install to proceed?

[Wolf_Rider]

@ KG26_Alpha

see what I mean

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

When you buy retailed software you are not buying the software its self, just the right to use it.

The company would be mad to actually sell you their software they have spent years and hundreds of thousands/millions on for peanuts

You only own the right to use it under their terms and conditions.

.

I think most people are aware of this. And it's just those "terms" that we're talking about.

Basically if you want to play the game you are forced to install other software that you have no control over at all and that can do pretty much anything in your system without you knowing.
Is it so difficult to understand that some people doesn't like that and just wants to buy a clean game?

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by yellonet

No I didn't miss that, but you may have missed the meaning of my answer.


That's hardly the same thing, DRM isn't something that is a vital part of the product, the product works just fine without it, DRM is just added afterwards in order to control how the product is used. How would you like it if that nVidia card would only would let you run games that had paid off nVidia to be "nVidia certified" for instance?


Again, that's not the same. We're not talking about changing the product and then making a claim against the publisher/seller, it's just about being able to use the product the way you want to without being forced to be online or being forced to install software that you have no control over and that can pretty much do anything in your system without you knowing it.

Nah... I understood your answer

my question which I put to you... you're twisting and detracting away a little there and getting into areas of trading law

how do you define: use it the way you want to?

well, you've only got the thieves/ pirates to thank for that... but, in fairness, I don't agree with being held to a constant online connect to run the sim/ game either (as I've said before), which is different to an online activation yada, yada.