Trying to identify this 110 shot down in Africa or the MTO. Pictures included.

[Mysticpuma]

Outstanding reply. Many, many thanks. Cheers, MP

[Ltbear]

Well to dig into this i found a small bit of more information.

Monte Corvino airfield was abandon by Sep 1943 not sure about the specific date, but deffently september

here is a few more images. These images compared to the ones you have shown is proberbly one who have been stripped of spareparts, look at the simularity between your pictures and these ones.







I dont think it was shot down. When i look at these other pictures it looks like a wright of, being used as spareparts.

Cant find any record for for this plane, but can find losses for other planes, this one is not recorded as a loss from what i can figure out lol...

well, maby Zack knows the person on these other pictures..

**small update**

ZG1 was withdrawn from Italy in late august 1943

They were redesignatet 1./ZG26 and changed from BF-110 to JU-88C

So we have a timeframe.

They arived march 1943 and departet late august 1943

1./ZG1 Gruppenkommandeure Monte corvino

Major Joachim Blechschmidt, 20 August 1942 – 12 April 1943
Hauptmann Wilfried Hermann, April 43 – 14 July 1943
Hauptmann Max Franzisket 14 July 1943 – 19 July 1943

There is a wired gab between July and Oktober, cant find info on who was GC doing that time

[Mysticpuma]

Originally Posted by Ltbear

Well to dig into this i found a small bit of more information.

Monte Corvino airfield was abandon by Sep 1943 not sure about the specific date, but deffently september

here is a few more images. These images compared to the ones you have shown is proberbly one who have been stripped of spareparts, look at the simularity between your pictures and these ones.







I dont think it was shot down. When i look at these other pictures it looks like a wright of, being used as spareparts.

Cant find any record for for this plane, but can find losses for other planes, this one is not recorded as a loss from what i can figure out lol...

well, maby Zack knows the person on these other pictures..

**small update**

ZG1 was withdrawn from Italy in late august 1943

They were redesignatet 1./ZG26 and changed from BF-110 to JU-88C

So we have a timeframe.

They arived march 1943 and departet late august 1943

1./ZG1 Gruppenkommandeure Monte corvino

Major Joachim Blechschmidt, 20 August 1942 – 12 April 1943
Hauptmann Wilfried Hermann, April 43 – 14 July 1943
Hauptmann Max Franzisket 14 July 1943 – 19 July 1943

There is a wired gab between July and Oktober, cant find info on who was GC doing that time

Some more excellent information guys, thanks again.

Although they do look likely to have been stripped, I still wonder if these were actually shot up though?

If you look at the last two-pictures there are certainly bullet-holes visible. In the close-up of the guy holding the wire, there are multiple holes in the nose and in the wider shot, look above the wing and also the tail of the painted wasp?

Maybe they were stripped for spares after being damaged, or stripped as they couldn't be repaired before the airfield was over-run?

The video links were really interesting too, thanks for everything.

Cheers, MP

[Ltbear]

maby a combination between battle damedge and straifing by the allieds. Planes written of as 100% losses was normaly stripped down where you took all the parts that was salvageble.


LTbear

[John Vasco]

To correct and clarify a few things in this thread.

I./ZG 1 was not transferred to the Med. Front. When II./ZG 1 moved to the Med area, I./ZG 1 remained in Russia.

When II./ZG 1 was withdrawn from Montecorvino, it was not redesignated 1./ZG 26. Ltbear, you need to differentiate betwen first Staffel (1.) and first Gruppe (I.). The re-designation of II./ZG 1 did not occur until mid-1944.

S9+MP shown at Montecorvino is a Bf 110 G-2, as evidenced by the later style Bordfunker's canopy. There is no evidence whatsoever to show that II./ZG 1 in the Med flew any 'E' variants. The 'E' was being phased out with the Gruppe once they started receiving the 'F' variant on the Russian front. By the time they reached the Med area, they were equipped with the 'G-2' variant. It is known they had on charge one old 'C' variant in the Med, probably passed on to them by III./ZG 26.

[John Vasco]

Ltbear,

No question.

Go check the loss tables in my book, 'Sting of the Luftwaffe'. There, you will see all the RECORDED losses of aircraft forwarded to Luftwaffe HQ via two sources:
1. The Namentliche Verlustemeldungen, which reported the loss/wounding of crews, which also contained quite detailed aircraft information most of the time; and
2. The aircraft returns forwarded to the Lw Quartermaster for the purpose of acquiring replacement aircraft.

As I put in my first post, apart from a Bf 110 C, which I believe was a C-1 acquired from III./ZG 26 on the Med front, all the loss/damage information for aircraft was for Bf 110 G-2 aircraft. The sideways folding Bordfunker's canopy in the photos confirm it as a G-2, not an 'E'.

Unit codes on the fuselage of Bf 110s were re-used again and again in Luftwaffe Staffeln, so more than one Bf 110 would have carried the code S9+MP, not just one. Let me give you an example: Bf 110 D-0/B, S9+CK, shot down and belly-landed at Hawkhurst, Kent on 15th August 1940; Bf 110 E-1/N, S9+CK, shot down into the North Sea on 12th May 1941; Bf 110 E-1, S9+CK, damaged on combat mission, Propajak, Russian front, 12th August 1941; Me 210 A-1, S9+CK, crashed on training flight, Hörsching, near Linz, 12th December 1941; Bf 110 F-2, S9+CK, hit by Flak, 31st December 1942; Bf 110 G-2, S9+CK, hit by Flak and Russian fighter, east of Russkt-Brod, 10th May 1943.

So simpy because the Bf 110 carries the code S9+MP, you cannot ascribe its variant/sub-variant to the only known recorded code in Luftwaffe returns. Remember, if II./ZG 1 was suddenly forced to retreat and leave behind many aircraft that were u/s on Montecorvino, the last thing on their minds was probably hanging around to fill in some paperwork about the minute details of those damaged aircraft. They would simply have requisitioned replacements once they had reached their new base.

I hope this clarifies things to your satisfaction.

[Ltbear]

Originally Posted by John Vasco

Ltbear,

No question.

Go check the loss tables in my book, 'Sting of the Luftwaffe'. There, you will see all the RECORDED losses of aircraft forwarded to Luftwaffe HQ via two sources:
1. The Namentliche Verlustemeldungen, which reported the loss/wounding of crews, which also contained quite detailed aircraft information most of the time; and
2. The aircraft returns forwarded to the Lw Quartermaster for the purpose of acquiring replacement aircraft.

As I put in my first post, apart from a Bf 110 C, which I believe was a C-1 acquired from III./ZG 26 on the Med front, all the loss/damage information for aircraft was for Bf 110 G-2 aircraft. The sideways folding Bordfunker's canopy in the photos confirm it as a G-2, not an 'E'.

Unit codes on the fuselage of Bf 110s were re-used again and again in Luftwaffe Staffeln, so more than one Bf 110 would have carried the code S9+MP, not just one. Let me give you an example: Bf 110 D-0/B, S9+CK, shot down and belly-landed at Hawkhurst, Kent on 15th August 1940; Bf 110 E-1/N, S9+CK, shot down into the North Sea on 12th May 1941; Bf 110 E-1, S9+CK, damaged on combat mission, Propajak, Russian front, 12th August 1941; Me 210 A-1, S9+CK, crashed on training flight, Hörsching, near Linz, 12th December 1941; Bf 110 F-2, S9+CK, hit by Flak, 31st December 1942; Bf 110 G-2, S9+CK, hit by Flak and Russian fighter, east of Russkt-Brod, 10th May 1943.

So simpy because the Bf 110 carries the code S9+MP, you cannot ascribe its variant/sub-variant to the only known recorded code in Luftwaffe returns. Remember, if II./ZG 1 was suddenly forced to retreat and leave behind many aircraft that were u/s on Montecorvino, the last thing on their minds was probably hanging around to fill in some paperwork about the minute details of those damaged aircraft. They would simply have requisitioned replacements once they had reached their new base.

I hope this clarifies things to your satisfaction.

Sir.

I read and learn, and have no problem understanding what you are saying. Sometimes i need to read things with a bat bashing my head so i can understand lol....(not native english speaking)

My problem with any plane who use that code is that i cant find information on any plane with the code S9+MP

I have been reading the last 3 hours, in books on the net even used a great ammount of time on luftwaffe ahchives. You can find alot of information on a great deal of the planes used by ZG1, but the one or ones using the S9+MP code i simply cant find anything on

For me it have moved from the specific aircraft over to a more broad seach on the code it self, instead of any specific plane. ( the hunt of the story of S9+MP lmao)

If you have information on any plane using that number i would love to have it (sometimes you just need to know, even if its nothing you can realy use lol)


LTbear

[John Vasco]

Ltbear,

Forget the code, look at the Bordfunker's rear canopy. It is the later, revised, sideways folding canopy. It was NOT used on Bf 110 Es.