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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #1  
Old 01-05-2011, 07:57 PM
JG53Frankyboy JG53Frankyboy is offline
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i hope the the JG53 gets its Ace of Spades back if the mission is after 20.November 1940
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  #2  
Old 01-06-2011, 06:31 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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According to my information that date's outside the scope. I did not make the "Ace of Spades" emblem ...
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  #3  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:52 PM
DoolittleRaider DoolittleRaider is offline
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@cs Thor...Just curious if you included the Griffin emblem of St. G 3, shown below on a customized IL2 skin and in the profiles below that. I have a specific interest in this unit as a result of my work on this Stuka website... Ultimately I would like to replace all/most of the IL2 images at the website with higher quality/detailed SOW:BofB Stuka aircraft screenies, and video clips.






Emblem clearly shown below...please disregard that this is a Spring 1941 paint scheme

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  #4  
Old 01-07-2011, 05:08 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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For the BoB StG 3 (and only Stab and I./StG 3!) was raised and as a brand new unit it did not use emblems before spring 1941. It was a PITA to research that but all evidence I managed to find points to this.

There're quite a lot of mixups about german emblems around and it was not easy to find the grains of truth here.
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2011, 03:56 PM
jameson jameson is offline
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Doolittle, this is why profiles are useless:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/602to607.html

This the RAF's, Mod's official site, you'd think they would know! But it's obvious from the original B&W photo that their profile is incorrect.

Good luck with your projects.
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2011, 09:40 PM
DoolittleRaider DoolittleRaider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csThor View Post
For the BoB StG 3 (and only Stab and I./StG 3!) was raised and as a brand new unit it did not use emblems before spring 1941. It was a PITA to research that but all evidence I managed to find points to this.

There're quite a lot of mixups about german emblems around and it was not easy to find the grains of truth here.
As a matter of historical interest only, (NOT a criticism in any way of SOW:BOB WIP updates) I've learned that St.G76 had used the Griffin emblem (white griffin on green shield) since possibly as early as the Poland campaign. The Stukas of I./St.G 76 became on/about 9 July 1940 the 1st Gruppe of the newly created St.G3, and seem to have retained their griffin emblem which continued to be displayed through the Balkan and maybe 1941 Med campaigns. Likewise, the aircraft/unit also carried forward the Code letters S1 of the de-activated St.G 76 until as late as the deployment to North Africa, whereas the other Gruppen of St.G 3 used the newly created S7 code of St.G 3.
Source is Eagles over Europe Project and also this modeller (Tango 098 )'s reference, among others:
"It was also common for Stuka units to carry their respective emblems on both sides of the forward fuselage just beneath the windscreen and in the case of the I./St.G.76 this was a white Steiermark Griffon on a green shield which the unit is known to have still been using on some of its Stukas in August 1940". http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/l...hp/t52525.html

So it would appear that Stukas of I./St.G3, at least, during Battle of France and early Battle of Britain would have continued to carry the griffin emblem. I assume that later the emblem may have been applied to other St.G3 gruppen.

Of course, by the time St.G 3 was deployed to North Africa, the emblem seems to have been removed from all St.G 3 Stukas.

Last edited by DoolittleRaider; 01-10-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2011, 06:02 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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Unfortunately it's not as clear-cut with these Stuka units. Apparently some of the "established facts" which can be found in various books and websites seem to be less clear. I did ask a number of questions on 12o'clockhigh and among the most disputed units was I./StG 3 (the other was III./StG 77).

There's a lot of nonsense about Luftwaffe units around and if you dig deeper into the matter you'll find less and less clear facts and more and more discrepancies.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:20 PM
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Friendly_flyer Friendly_flyer is offline
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Unlike Doolittle, I do not mind if it is possible to put markings from a Spitfire squadron on a Hurricane (or a He 111 for that matter). Neither do I object to being able to change squadron code colour, size or placement, nor the possibility of making "fantasy" squadrons. It is a game after all, and made for enjoyment.

I do guess that squadrons come with a sort of default for their markings (also regarding colour, placement etc), at least for the kites they actually flew. I realize that the markings varied even within squadrons and varied with time (the fin-flashes on the Hurricanes being a good example, they went from non in early 1940, through various "large" versions during the summer to be replaced with the regulation 24'' by 27'' square at various points during from late summer to the end of the battle), but some sort of "typical" settings for each squadrons would be nice. When a non-historical plane/squadron is used, the default setting should be the one most common for the plane.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:15 AM
DoolittleRaider DoolittleRaider is offline
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With regard to St.G76 use of the Griffin emblem, the Director of the EOE project stated this in a recent post at TOCH on the subject:
"I just did a quick run through of examples of I./StG 76 images in our DB (51 of them) and this insignia appears to have been universally used during the WC Blitzkrieg of May-June, and there are a few examples of it with the 1939-style fuselage crosses which presumably date back to 1939, and likely to the Polish Campaign."



It is really a shame that Heinz Migeod passed away two months ago before this discussion/thread arose. First hand accounts and memories surely superceed a stack of supposedly well-researched books,or tertiary research derived from such secondary books/sources.


He was there, he flew with 2./I./St.G76 and 2./I./St.G3; his Flugbuch clearly shows that he was flying his Ju-87 Stuka S1+DK in June and still flying it on 10 July a day after some Luftwaffe orders had been published redesignating his unit as 2./I./St.G3. It is very difficult to believe that he and his Staffel mates would have removed their St.G76 griffon emblems in the midst of an ongoing battle/campaign, then at a later date after their less than one month involvement in the BofB, re-applied those same emblems as the unit re-deployed to the Balkans. Heinz in his interviews made no mention of any such 'temporary/interim' removal.

Heinz Migeod in July 2010 with his shall I say 'cherished' I./St.G76, and I./St.G3 griffon emblem.

Last edited by DoolittleRaider; 01-12-2011 at 04:23 AM.
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