4.10 Support & Bug Reporting

[IvanK]

For those debating Spitfire Elevator trim and the fact that they are seeing the elevator deflected visibly in external views when trimmed out. Well have a look at a few Air to Air shots of Spitfires and check out the position of the elevator. Its pretty characteristic of the type. Here is a couple of images of a MKXVI (Belongs to the Australian Temora collection) taken from an O2 whilst sitting in close formation and all nicely trimmed out speed at the time 130 Knots IAS:

[rollnloop]

Originally Posted by IvanK

For those debating Spitfire Elevator trim and the fact that they are seeing the elevator deflected visibly in external views when trimmed out. Well have a look at a few Air to Air shots of Spitfires and check out the position of the elevator. Its pretty characteristic of the type. Here is a couple of images of a MKXVI (Belongs to the Australian Temora collection) taken from an O2 whilst sitting in close formation and all nicely trimmed out speed at the time 130 Knots IAS:

Reading your post i'm not too sure Sean, were you in the spit or in the O2 ? I know you fly warbirds occasionnally, did you fly the spit and does it really need much down trim, even at slow speeds and/or low power ? Pilot's notes are quite evasive on the matter.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Well, for you guys complaining of the trim. Have you ever cared to look at the TRIM GAUGE in the Spitfire cockpit? I flew the Sissyfire and trimmed for fast cruise, the needle was less than half the range of the gauge and with less speed close to 0 position. And when had the trim at around 30% of the gauge reading the elevator was at roughly same position as in the photo above. I use trim on a slider, not tapping a key. Compare to FW190 that has the trim gauge too just aft of the throttle marked with an "alpha" sign. In Sissyfire the gauge is below the gear lamp indicator on left side.

[Ian Boys]

Hi Av,

OK, I tried your missions and they did work, so I saw how it should be. I tried mine again and it works fine for Red now (using IL-2 s2 as spotter) but I can't get it to work for blue with either Ju-87B2 or Hurri1 as spotters.

I reckon it might be something as daft as the order you put the things in the game, like with gliders.

Anyway, it's driving me nucking futs.

Can I send you my mission please? Might be something dead obvious ....

ian

[vparez]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Well, for you guys complaining of the trim. Have you ever cared to look at the TRIM GAUGE in the Spitfire cockpit? I flew the Sissyfire and trimmed for fast cruise, the needle was less than half the range of the gauge and with less speed close to 0 position. And when had the trim at around 30% of the gauge reading the elevator was at roughly same position as in the photo above. I use trim on a slider, not tapping a key. Compare to FW190 that has the trim gauge too just aft of the throttle marked with an "alpha" sign. In Sissyfire the gauge is below the gear lamp indicator on left side.

I don't know what are you implying by your post, but the comparison with FW shows that for a trimmed flight at 100% throttle, FW shows very small displacement of the needle, and it surely needs much less trim than the Spitfire.

I don't know who is a vintage plane pilot here, but as far as I know, a plane never needs much trim for a cruise flight. If you need to trim your plane so much for a cruise flight, it is a very bad design. People can hate the Spitfire here as much as they want, but it was a very well designed airplane, which is confirmed if nothing else then just by its longevity in service.

I don't think that TD should base the FM of a spit on a few photos of in-flight spitfire; and that doesn't explain the fact that it rolls like crazy all the time to the right.

Still no comment from TD on this. I would say they compiled 4.10 with a wrong version of the FM, that's all.

[IvanK]

...."I don't think that TD should base the FM of a spit on a few photos of in-flight spitfire..."

They don't, the images were provided as a response to this thread to indicate typical Spitfire Elevator position in a trimmed 1G cruise state. There are plenty of other images around of Spits in the Luft showing this elevator deflection.

No Rollnloop .. I should be so lucky . The Spitfire pilot is a friend who provided me with the images from a photoshoot.

[Ian Boys]

Thanks gabe!

[vparez]

Originally Posted by IvanK

They don't, the images were provided as a response to this thread to indicate typical Spitfire Elevator position in a trimmed 1G cruise state. There are plenty of other images around of Spits in the Luft showing this elevator deflection.

I know they don't mate, and I realize now that what I said was uncalled for, so I do apologize. TD does a lot of great work, and they surely do not deserve any complaints from us.

In all honesty, I can't really say if the elevator trim is ok or wrong, I just don't have the info to be the judge of that.

However, the roll just seems suspicious to me.

I tried a Bf109 and a FW190 and for both of them there is a throttle setting and a speed at which they fly without roll, even though they don't even have a rudder trim, much less the aileron trim. In both cases, I just played with the throttle, and kept the pitch at "auto". No rudder input at all and plane elevator trimmed for level flight.

I managed to stop the roll in FW190 completely at about 70% throttle and a stable speed of 420 kph IAS at 1500m. In Bf109G2 it was more around 80%, there was side slip and the roll didn't go completely, but was at least like the roll of a trimmed-out Spit VIII in 4.09.

I tried then the Spit VIII in 4.10 and found that no matter what I do with the throttle or pitch, it just rolls to the right at the rate of about 3 deg/sec (very rough observation) at comparable level speeds.

If I was to guess, I would expect that a plane like this should be able to fly perfectly trimmed at about 2500-2600RPM and Boost of +8 (a guess).

It certainly seems strange that a plane with a rudder trim is harder to fly than ones without. Even rudder trim doesn't help with the roll, since if I make it stop rolling, I have a considerable skid... I am definitely not flying optimally.

Could it be a slight mistake in the "DefaultAileronTrim" setting? A wrong sign maybe?

For a Spit VIII 4.09 it was 0.015, what is it now, if I may ask?

Again, really thanks to TD for all the great things in this patch, can't wait to play another SEOW with 4.10 and all new features!

Cheers!

[BlueLion]

It has been reported some times already but not confirmed being a bug, or I missed it.

In Home Base Properties, when using "MODIFY COUNTRIES" is does save the first time and adding the [BornPlaceCountries0] to the .mis file. However editing the mission again in FMB requires to set the countries again, because if you leave it untouched if editing your mission, this parameter is not saved.


BL

[rollnloop]

Originally Posted by IvanK

No Rollnloop .. I should be so lucky . The Spitfire pilot is a friend who provided me with the images from a photoshoot.

Thanks for clarification