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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #1  
Old 12-20-2010, 03:38 PM
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OT stuff from BoB update thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azimech View Post
If you look carefully you'll see thin lines, a pipe, attached the exhaust pipes, running through the fuselage, into that thing behind the intercooler. That's the turbocharger. You'll see a pipe go through the intercooler and from the intercooler back to the engine. It seems they had it right to keep the supercharger attached to the engine, since the turbo takes load of from it, decreasing the load on the engine to drive the supercharger, and being able to boost even more. It was probably even coupled with the barometric device that regulated the variable hydraulic clutch. Anyway I would've chosen that spot due to the CoG.

I wish Flugwerk would build a 190C, just to see how it performs.
Ah yes, you're right. I was missing the pipeline that was coming out of the exhaust. And the fact that turbo is lined up axially long with the plane's axis.

Having a supercharger and turbocharger - shows why it was so complicated for the era.

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A number of attempts were made to use turbochargers on the BMW 801 series as well. The first used a modified BMW 801D to create the BMW 801J, delivering 1,810 PS (1,785 hp, 1,331 kW) at takeoff and 1,500 hp (1,103 kW) at 40,000 ft (12,200 m), an altitude where the D was struggling to produce 630 hp (463 kW). The BMW 801E was likewise modified to create the BMW 801Q, delivering a superb 1,715 hp (1,261 kW) at 40,000 ft (12,200 m), power ratings no existing allied engine could touch. However none of these engines ever entered production due to high costs, and the various high-altitude designs based on them were forced to turn to other engines entirely, typically the Junkers Jumo 213.
- - - -


Lovely...

Q: What is the purpose of the small radiator, just below the engine? Second (SC) inter-cooler?
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Last edited by T}{OR; 12-20-2010 at 04:14 PM. Reason: added OT stuff from BoB update thread
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:41 PM
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I think it's the oil cooler.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:44 PM
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Makes sense. The intake pipes aren't running through it.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:52 PM
Fliegenpilz Fliegenpilz is offline
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Wow! Nice drawings... did you make them by yourself? And, is there a website or something similar where more of those can be found (with cockpit details like here)?

Greetings, Fliegenpilz
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fliegenpilz View Post
Wow! Nice drawings... did you make them by yourself? And, is there a website or something similar where more of those can be found (with cockpit details like here)?

Greetings, Fliegenpilz
Some here: http://www.ufindbook.com/ebook-histo...52-part-2.html

-> click ebook search and dl
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:22 PM
JG27CaptStubing JG27CaptStubing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azimech View Post
I think it's the oil cooler.
Actually it's an intercooler to keep the air going back to the turbos from Frying them...Also lowering the tempurature makes the air thicker. Interesting to see how its both Turbo Charged and SuperCharged.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing View Post
Actually it's an intercooler to keep the air going back to the turbos from Frying them...Also lowering the tempurature makes the air thicker. Interesting to see how its both Turbo Charged and SuperCharged.
TC's inter-cooler is below the cockpit - that big heat exchanger. If it indeed is the second inter-cooler it could only be related with SC, to cool the air after it passes through SC. Watch how the air/exhaust flows and how the pipeline is designed.

I would still go with the oil cooler, like Azimech said.
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Last edited by T}{OR; 12-20-2010 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:50 PM
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BUT:
1.
Looking at the blueprint it looks like:
SC->IC->Turbo->Intake
Which I think is odd, very odd. I would expect the highest pressure/temp rise passing the turbo.


2.
Another funny thing is the exhaust manifold and the tubing, outside the airplane.
@10K amsl you got what, -35°?
And your flying >600kph.
Now, cooling down the exhaust gases can't really add to the efficiency, or am I wrong?


Any thoughts?


EDIT:
Point one seems wrong after drawing some lines - but now the setup looks even weirder.




I mean, I would expect they bypassed the SC at some rpm level(And maybe shared the IC for it too), if my drawing are correct, it's more like Turbo->IC->SC->Intake.

Last edited by swiss; 12-22-2010 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss View Post
He was talking about the thing under the engine, which an oil to air "heat exchange device".
The big one in the belly is the IC.
Your 2nd point is right, the first one wrong, the compressed air never goes "back" to the turbo.
Also, the turbo has to deal with way higher temp(exhaust gases) then the compressed air could ever reach.
Usually it's like:
Filter(if there is)->Turbo(rise in temp due compression)->IC->Intake
Now I have to correct you on this one.

Turbine is just that - a turbine. Turbocharger is driven by the kinetic energy of exhaust gases. It does not use the same exhaust gases to feed the engine. It sucks in the same air the normal, mechanically driven supercharger would.

The only scenario where you would use (recirculated) exhaust gases is when you want to lower emissions set by certain standard (e.g. EGR valve). And this is way too modern technology for WW2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss View Post
BUT:
1.
Looking at the blueprint it looks like:
SC->IC->Turbo->Intake
Which I think is odd, very odd. I would expect the highest pressure/temp rise passing the turbo.



2.
Another funny thing is the exhaust manifold and the tubing, outside the airplane.
@10K amsl you got what, -35°?
And your flying >600kph.
Now, cooling down the exhaust gases can't really add to the efficiency, or am I wrong?


Any thoughts?
I too think this would be odd. This is the way I understood it (twice as shorter route / intake manifold):

Exhaust valves / TC + fresh air => IC (for TC) => SC > engine intake valves (or manifold if you want).
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2010, 07:34 PM
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Maybe because you misunderstood the drawing...

Red: Exhaust
light blue: fresh compressed hot air
blue: cooled down compressed air

I did not draw the point where the exhaust gases leve the system, nor the the actual intake.

Back to the 190:

Quote:
Exhaust valves / TC + fresh air => IC (for TC) => SC > engine intake valves (or manifold if you want).

Last edited by swiss; 12-22-2010 at 08:59 PM.
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