Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[JG52Karaya]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

The MK 108 is a case in point. If you look at the raw data, it has a projectile diameter of 57mm. Yet most agree that it's effectiveness in game is pretty much historical for a 30mm gun.

Sorry to say but that is complete nonsense. There actually isnt even a "diameter" variable for any of the aircraft weapons, only a "calibre" value which itself is linked to armour penetration and not the actual calibre.

And I also believe that people have a point here about the bombs, there are very large discrepancies between the bombs of all the various nations (wether its Soviet, US, UK, German, Japanese,...) and wether this is actually realistic should be proven with proper data.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Hence, UP is known as the "Blue Mod Pack".

The real issue is that even if you have data obtained by cracking IL2's code, you still don't know how the internals of the game's engine use that data.

The MK 108 is a case in point. If you look at the raw data, it has a projectile diameter of 57mm. Yet most agree that it's effectiveness in game is pretty much historical for a 30mm gun. Why? Because of the mechanics of the game engine itself. It is not as cut and dried as "gun X has a 57mm bore so it behaves like a 57mm gun".

But some folks just refuse to understand that salient point, or ignore it on purpose to advance their particular agenda.

Oh man, what are you talking about 57mm?
Which game do you fly?

You apparently haven´t looked into the data of IL2.

In IL2 the MK108 is:
HE(-M)-T
500 m/s
42 g Explosives

historically the MK108 has these values:
HE-(M)-T
540 m/s
85 g (various fillings including TNT, Penthrite wax, and a mix of 75% Hexogen, 20% Al, 5% wax)

and

HE(-M)-T
330 g
505 m/s
72 g (various fillings including TNT, Penthrite wax, and a mix of 75% Hexogen, 20% Al, 5% wax)

While historically 4 shots were needed to down a B-17.
In game you need around 10.


Now please, don´t come with the Luft-wining argument again.
If you want to talk about facts then let´s talk about fact!

Another fact is that the FAB bombs were not always modeled with a super-huge bombradius.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Now I know what ElAurens is talking about.

He is talking about the caliber value, not knowing that the caliber value isn´t representing the caliber.

[ElAurens]

Amusing.

At best.

Hence once 4.10 is released I am done with mods forever.

[Gryphon_]

Originally Posted by Viikate

So all bombs with same weight belong to same family by your logic? German SC bombs are thin wall high-explosive bombs that kill with blast effect. Not with sharapnels.

Don't agree with that, sorry. If these weights are accurate:

__________________Fab1000___________SC1000
Weight of HE_______555 kg___________630 kg
Weight of Bomb___1000 kg__________1090 kg

...then both bombs are roughly 60% HE and 40% casing, which makes them blast fragmentation munitions. Pretty much all air delivered bombs are, apart from fuel-air munitions that don't use frag at all, and use different explosive material, and work on a different principle.

My only comment on the radius issue if that given the weight of frag material and HE is roughly the same, you'd need a huge step-up in HE specific power to extend the lethal radius (to a common damage criteria) out by a factor of three. The only 'historical data' needed to settle this issue is the nature of the HE mixes used by the FAB and SC series. If the specific powers are similar, than one is way wrong.

I discourage posting too much info on this topic, specifically any effectiveness calcs. Even if you know the science of all this, keep it offline please as this knowledge kills people everyday.

[Triad773]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

But some folks just refuse to understand that salient point, or ignore it on purpose to advance their particular agenda.

Yes El- and it is a matter of perspective. As knowing your flavour from the Ubi boards, I know that cuts both ways.

You can look at the data, interpret that, then feed it to testers as a group, get a consensus on performance. So nothing is done in a vacuum. So what in your opinion sucks about it? Is it one-sidedness in general, or your one sidedness?

[Tempest123]

Okay, back to the point of this thread, I have another small request, the default skins for the A6M zero's are not so good, particularly the A6M5 and up, especially considering the other Japanese aircraft have some excellent skins. There are lots of great skins out there from Jaypack44 and others, and it would be nice to have some better ones as default given that this is the "de facto" japanese fighter for most of the war. I hope the pacific aircraft don't get lost in the endless "VVS vs Luftwaffe" debate.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Okay, back to the point of this thread, I have another small request, the default skins for the A6M zero's are not so good, particularly the A6M5 and up, especially considering the other Japanese aircraft have some excellent skins. There are lots of great skins out there from Jaypack44 and others, and it would be nice to have some better ones as default given that this is the "de facto" japanese fighter for most of the war. I hope the pacific aircraft don't get lost in the endless "VVS vs Luftwaffe" debate.

So the A6M5 was missed in the big 4.09 default skin download ?

[Hans Burger]

The real issue is that even if you have data obtained by cracking IL2's code, you still don't know how the internals of the game's engine use that data.

... but reading your previous post, same question for you.

Now, it is very simple to have an objective idea on this subject. Hades has some data, according to quality control follows by DT, I can't imagine that setting of the game cannot be justified by relevant data. Put these data on the table and this point will be closed very quickly.

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

So the A6M5 was missed in the big 4.09 default skin download ?

AFAIK the 4.09 skin pack did not include pacific aircraft, probably because most of them are newer models and didn't really need new default skins, except for those zekes...