Patch 4.10 - Development Updates by Daidalos Team

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

Hopefully SoW will give a real kick on the nuts to everyone and make them THINK and RTFM to LEARN. The whiney flight sim crowd needs a wake-up from the lullaby we are living in..and I hope SoW does it.

What would the sales of that be? Almost nothing, that's just not a plausible situation, there aren't that many masochists.

[Azimech]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

What would the sales of that be? Almost nothing, that's just not a plausible situation, there aren't that many masochists.

We already have multiple options in the IL2 series for decreasing workload like simple engine management and starting all engines at once.

So online, just set the params accordingly to your desired crowd. The more serious, thoughtful simmers, or the airquakers. Just like it is today.

I agree having to read and learn a manual like that of Black Shark is totally beyond the scope of the series.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Igo Kuy, at full real I would expect FULL real, no shortcuts or similar. Do the things by the book, then call it a sim. For those not wanting that there are sure options to make it IL-2ish easy IL-2 even at full difficulty is a lot simplified in many regards, like said above you can firewall the throttle straight from start etc. without ANY consequences. Workload for the pilot is minuscule.

Germans had 1 lever that did it all on Fw190 and Bf109 reducing workload, in IL2 allied planes that have no fuel injection or kommandogerät enjoy precisely the same which is not totally realistic. So the bottom line holds, people like realism that suits their preference

I am gonna fly SoW at full real from the start(regarding engine management, flight model, gunnery or whatever parameters can be adjusted), by the book and reading the frigging manuals

[Blackdog_kt]

The good thing about WWII aircraft is that they are much simpler. In a civilian/modern sim you can have all sorts of different engines, from regular pistons to turboprops to jets and they all have different principles of operation.

In IL2 and SoW all there is is the good old piston engine. It's not a mountain of knowledge, if you learn how piston engines work on one aircraft you've learned it for all aircraft. From that point on the only thing that changes is the operating limits. And if you don't want to remember them either, don't worry, they are clearly marked on the instruments with colored arcs: green=good, yellow=caution, red=bad

I seriously doubt that a bunch of seasoned flight simmers will find it hard to keep a needle within a colored arc after reading the manual once

It's a bit of extra stuff to do on those boring transit legs of the route, it adds an extra dimension to combat because you need to think wether your attack profile will push your engine outside its operating limits and most of all, it's not that difficult to be considered the realm of masochists, it's just as complicated as it needs to be to present a welcome and satisfying challenge when you learn how it works.

In fact, it's dead simple and you don't even have to wait for SoW to see what it's all about. Have a look here if you're interested and you'll see exactly what is not only simplified, but in many cases completely opposite to how things operate betweem IL2 and the real world: http://www.a2asimulations.com/wingso...sim_Manual.pdf

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

The good thing about WWII aircraft is that they are much simpler. In a civilian/modern sim you can have all sorts of different engines, from regular pistons to turboprops to jets and they all have different principles of operation.

In IL2 and SoW all there is is the good old piston engine. It's not a mountain of knowledge, if you learn how piston engines work on one aircraft you've learned it for all aircraft. From that point on the only thing that changes is the operating limits. And if you don't want to remember them either, don't worry, they are clearly marked on the instruments with colored arcs: green=good, yellow=caution, red=bad

I seriously doubt that a bunch of seasoned flight simmers will find it hard to keep a needle within a colored arc after reading the manual once

It's a bit of extra stuff to do on those boring transit legs of the route, it adds an extra dimension to combat because you need to think wether your attack profile will push your engine outside its operating limits and most of all, it's not that difficult to be considered the realm of masochists, it's just as complicated as it needs to be to present a welcome and satisfying challenge when you learn how it works.

In fact, it's dead simple and you don't even have to wait for SoW to see what it's all about. Have a look here if you're interested and you'll see exactly what is not only simplified, but in many cases completely opposite to how things operate betweem IL2 and the real world: http://www.a2asimulations.com/wingso...sim_Manual.pdf

Very nice. I guess if BoB will simulate all this features. I think more workload over the pilot (like the real thing), more the sim will favour the better pilots most of times than better aircraft. But i am not 100% certain SoW will include this features since until i have seemed more preocupation about graphics.

Il2 does not give to the aircraft historically easy to manage and more features for pilot help any advantage.

[Blackdog_kt]

As for favoring the better pilot, there are a lot of different kinds of better pilots. Some shoot better, some fly better and others prepare better. The first two kinds of pilot are already able to show their skill in IL2. What will change by including realistic systems modelling is that it will enable the third kind of pilots to do the same

I don't know if SoW will include all that. However, i have a feeling it will be able to include them in the future. We didn't have perfect mode, water=3 and radio navigation in IL2 either back in 2001, but we have the first two now and we're about to get the third one thanks to team daidalos (just to gently steer the discussion back on topic )

[Flanker35M]

S!

I see what you mean, but if you compare today's piston engines to WW2 ones there is a difference Take a "lawn mower" Lycoming that powers those Cessnas/Pipers and compare to a RR Merlin/Daimler-Benz, the difference is quite huge. Today's engines are low hp without chargers etc. to give affordable flight hours and being reliable/easy to maintain and also air cooled for most part. The WW2 engines were built to deliver power at a wide range of altitudes, mostly liquid cooled and sophisticated in contrsuction, for example the DB600-series had fuel injection etc. To put it like this: Lycoming is the old Beetle engine and the RR/DB is a Formula 1 engine.

So operating these engines differs quite a bit as the margins with the "war engines" are smaller and require more attention from the pilot, tedious maintenance to dish out the HP and be somewhat reliable. With the Lycomings and similar the flying and maintenance is VERY simple, requiring less. Done some on Lycomings

So that is what SoW should bring, attention to what you do and how you manage the engine. SoW will bring more high fidelity and also wear & tear, if still in the features. You need to watch those gauges, in IL-2 they are more or less just showing something and you do not have to worry much.

The design philosophy also plays a role in a sim, if modelled. If you compare Hurricane/Spitfire vs Bf109E cockpits, there are more levers and stuff to operate in the RAF birds than in Bf109E, which increases the workload for the pilot. Compare today's HOTAS jets against the older jets and you see the same difference. Less work for the pilot = more of his resources are committed to fighting.

Oh well..the wait is nearing it's end soonish so we will see

[Auger73]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

The good thing about WWII aircraft is that they are much simpler. In a civilian/modern sim you can have all sorts of different engines, from regular pistons to turboprops to jets and they all have different principles of operation.

In IL2 and SoW all there is is the good old piston engine. It's not a mountain of knowledge, if you learn how piston engines work on one aircraft you've learned it for all aircraft. From that point on the only thing that changes is the operating limits. And if you don't want to remember them either, don't worry, they are clearly marked on the instruments with colored arcs: green=good, yellow=caution, red=bad

I seriously doubt that a bunch of seasoned flight simmers will find it hard to keep a needle within a colored arc after reading the manual once

The principles in operation of a pistone is a more complex than a turbine, whether a turbofan or turboprop. In a turbine the only thing a pilot controls is how much fuel to dump in the flame cans. In a piston engine, you have throttle, mixture, carb heat, and radiator to control.

Over the years, flying has become safer. There are more instruments on a modern aircraft, but they allow you to do things that were impossible in earlier eras (such as 0/0 landings). You may have to learn more instruments, but in the end, it becomes easier to accomplish the same tasks in a modern aircraft. Compare navigating with a hand-cranked hoop ADF vs. GPS.

[Abbeville-Boy]

very good update and good news for all, i hope for thanksgiving or holidays release, thanks oleg

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Auger73

The principles in operation of a pistone is a more complex than a turbine, whether a turbofan or turboprop. In a turbine the only thing a pilot controls is how much fuel to dump in the flame cans. In a piston engine, you have throttle, mixture, carb heat, and radiator to control.

Over the years, flying has become safer. There are more instruments on a modern aircraft, but they allow you to do things that were impossible in earlier eras (such as 0/0 landings). You may have to learn more instruments, but in the end, it becomes easier to accomplish the same tasks in a modern aircraft. Compare navigating with a hand-cranked hoop ADF vs. GPS.

I don't disagree with this, it's just that i've been a propeller-head simmer for most of my vitrual flying carreer, so piston engines come naturally to me. The first time i tried a turboprop on a friend's FSX i constantly felt like there was something important that needed to be done and i was forgetting it